Will there be steaming piles?

[NaffNaffBobFace]

There’s little doubt that woke advocates believe they’re “on the right side of history “. Thing is so do all but their most extreme opponents. Historians will note that the woke confusion elevating equality of outcome above freedom, responsibility, equality of opportunity and in general, a realist world view that values private property, truth, honesty, hard work, etc. . .woke hates all this stuff of Western Civilization. . .the woke exhalation has been tried before and always fails because at its core it is perverse. It is a perversion to set aside things like truth.

Woke, transthisandthat, social justice are all like shock therapy and labatomies. They seemed right for a while until we discovered we were insane to ever so indulge, and should have known better.

So yeah. Movies made with people all pretending a guy in the room is a girl are going to be an embarrassment for decades. There’s no way around this. Disney is going to cringe when they start to see what history makes of all their finely forced idol worship.

So what should be done with Song Of The South? The film is set in an era where people were property as slaves but depicts an entirely different set of relationships and reality to that which existed...?

The perversion you speak of, the setting aside of truth, is basically what that movie is.

But in calling it out for whitewashing the slave trade, by unveiling the truth counter to that of what the picture depicts... is classed as being awake to the social injustice... so by the description of a perversion of truth, both the media text and the reaction to it are both woke?

Should it be buried as it has been for nearly 40 years? Should it be reclassed as pure fiction and watched as pure fantasy off a state of being which never existed? Or re-released and just let done with?

 

[Shadow Reaper]

I’m not in favor of trying to erase the past for any reason. Without having seen what you’re referring to there’s not much more I can say about this except to note that it is a very recent cognitive error, indicative of shabby education; that pretends all things not condemned are somehow being endorsed or promoted. That’s a form of what historians call “presentism”, which in short is to judge all things across history based upon how we feel about them presently.

It’s obviously not true that this generation is morally superior to any other. Like any generation at the end of a civilization, it is if anything more lazy, more corrupt, more inept, less humble, less informed, less connected to the world around it. It’s a special kind of crazy to think experts in Pokémon need to be the moral guides of today’s world. They’re not. If they could get some small humility they’d know they’re not, but Mommy said I’m always right?! I’m so smart, and beautiful, and disfunctionally narcissistic.

We really do have a right to complain this generation has so dropped the ball, but then we need to complain about their boomer parents doing such poor work and it never ends. Fact is, life has been really good in Western Civilization now for 80 years, and good times make soft me. Soft men make bad times. The wheel has turned and the bad times are just around the corner, as can be seen by the utter failure in Western Civ’s morality.

We ought never have stopped punishing adultery. That’s about as far back as I can trace the self-indulgence. Time soon for a reset. Unfortunate that so many will die. Probably billions this time.

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

I’m not in favor of trying to erase the past for any reason. Without having seen what you’re referring to there’s not much more I can say about this except to note that it is a very recent cognitive error, indicative of shabby education; that pretends all things not condemned are somehow being endorsed or promoted. That’s a form of what historians call “presentism”, which in short is to judge all things across history based upon how we feel about them presently.

It’s obviously not true that this generation is morally superior to any other. Like any generation at the end of a civilization, it is if anything more lazy, more corrupt, more inept, less humble, less informed, less connected to the world around it. It’s a special kind of crazy to think experts in Pokémon need to be the moral guides of today’s world. They’re not. If they could get some small humility they’d know they’re not, but Mommy said I’m always right?! I’m so smart, and beautiful, and disfunctionally narcissistic.

We really do have a right to complain this generation has so dropped the ball, but then we need to complain about their boomer parents doing such poor work and it never ends. Fact is, life has been really good in Western Civilization now for 80 years, and good times make soft me. Soft men make bad times. The wheel has turned and the bad times are just around the corner, as can be seen by the utter failure in Western Civ’s morality.

We ought never have stopped punishing adultery. That’s about as far back as I can trace the self-indulgence. Time soon for a reset. Unfortunate that so many will die. Probably billions this time.

Interesting.

Song Of The South was defacto banned in 1986 so it's not like this is anything new.

Here is another example of wokery but it's from 1971:

View: https://youtu.be/ib-Qiyklq-Q?si=NyuKD4GCRSyj4CWs


These things are not new. Not new at all.

I'm not saying sucky movies don't suck. They do.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

Okay so now I understand your observation a little better. So let me back up.

Farther back into antiquity than we can trace Western Civilization, we can see this tension between two world views: tragic and utopian. The Utopian world view is where we get Marxism. I’m sure you can make the connection. People who believe we can and should make heaven on Earth are the most dangerous people throughout history, because they can justify anything. From Nimrod to Hitler, Stalin and Mao, utopians always ignore the tragedy of the human condition and pretend they can build heaven despite man is not fit for it.

Western Civilization is the result of the other world view. It teaches that mankind will always be terribly flawed and needs the flaws kept under wraps. Ancient Judaism, the Greeks of antiquity and finally their amalgam, The Church; starts with this premise of original sin and searches for a way to govern the madness. It seeks to limit both government and evil. Hence the saying “power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely”. The tragic view of life takes this to account and for example builds the balance of powers that stymie progress right into the US Constitution. The American Experiment in governance is entirely involved in coping with the tragedy of man’s nature.

So yeah. Woke is utopian. It is at odds with all Western Civilization. If that’s your point we’re totally agreed.

Without turning this into a vastly longer post let me also note that the tension over which is the greater value—equality or freedom—is just as long lived as the tension over Utopianism and tragedy. Hence we evolved this distinction 2,400 years ago between equality of opportunity, and equality of outcome. If you want the former there is still room for freedom. If you want the latter there is not. The Greeks figured this all out before they invented the Republic as an answer.

Woke teaches radical egalitarianism meaning equality of outcome, which leaves no room for freedom. This is why they use the term “equity” instead of “equality”. They’re stipulating equality of outcome. In order for the state to even begin to approach equality of outcome, it needs to use enormous amounts of coercion. Hence why you generally find it only in authoritarian societies. And note too, there has never been a successful attempt at equality of outcome. If you think on it the reasons become clear pretty quickly. It’s a horrid notion that gets lots of people oppressed and dead.

 

[Aramsolari]

@NaffNaffBobFace you're a brave man for even attempting to engage in this thread. Salutations.

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

Okay so now I understand your observation a little better. So let me back up.

Farther back into antiquity than we can trace Western Civilization, we can see this tension between two world views: tragic and utopian. The Utopian world view is where we get Marxism. I’m sure you can make the connection. People who believe we can and should make heaven on Earth are the most dangerous people throughout history, because they can justify anything. From Nimrod to Hitler, Stalin and Mao, utopians always ignore the tragedy of the human condition and pretend they can build heaven despite man is not fit for it.

Western Civilization is the result of the other world view. It teaches that mankind will always be terribly flawed and needs the flaws kept under wraps. Ancient Judaism, the Greeks of antiquity and finally their amalgam, The Church; starts with this premise of original sin and searches for a way to govern the madness. It seeks to limit both government and evil. Hence the saying “power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely”. The tragic view of life takes this to account and for example builds the balance of powers that stymie progress right into the US Constitution. The American Experiment in governance is entirely involved in coping with the tragedy of man’s nature.

So yeah. Woke is utopian. It is at odds with all Western Civilization. If that’s your point we’re totally agreed.

Without turning this into a vastly longer post let me also note that the tension over which is the greater value—equality or freedom—is just as long lived as the tension over Utopianism and tragedy. Hence we evolved this distinction 2,400 years ago between equality of opportunity, and equality of outcome. If you want the former there is still room for freedom. If you want the latter there is not. The Greeks figured this all out before they invented the Republic as an answer.

Woke teaches radical egalitarianism meaning equality of outcome, which leaves no room for freedom. This is why they use the term “equity” instead of “equality”. They’re stipulating equality of outcome. In order for the state to even begin to approach equality of outcome, it needs to use enormous amounts of coercion. Hence why you generally find it only in authoritarian societies. And note too, there has never been a successful attempt at equality of outcome. If you think on it the reasons become clear pretty quickly. It’s a horrid notion that gets lots of people oppressed and dead.

Finding the concept of Utopianism vs Tragic fascinating, but your historical examples and context lead me to some confusion?

From your historical examples, It does stand to logical interrogation that any dictator is going to appear Utopian as they attempt to forge the word in their own view using the power at their command - however I note many of the examples you have provided were Totalitarian Fascists. Fascism is most certainly not awake to social issues - it's Fascism and as such is clearly defined with the more detrimental operational processes:

- extreme materialistic nationalism,
- contempt for democracy and democratic process,
- disgust of political and cultural liberalism
- a belief in a natural social order with a level of elites and a communist leaning toward the individual being subordinate to the good of the nation.

You seem to be suggesting that so called "woke" is actually fascism which for all the world appears to be the opposite?

Further I am confused with your examples into the origin of teachings of the tragic in Western Civilisation... Greece is a very eastern West... Judaism is an Eastern belief framework and The Church you refer to I assume is the Christian one, began as a subset of the Judaism which then had a particular presence around the Mediterranean - here we have a notable conflict in that you have cited fascist dictators however notable is the founder of the Fascist party, Mussolini, who was the central pillar in the rise of fascism in Italy while Italy hosts the Vatican papal state which Mussolini was the creator of with the Lateran Treaty - being the seat of the Catholic faith, a Christian dogma which you indicate Western culture is partly informed by...?

I'm not entirely sure if you are speaking about in regard to what Woke is? Fascism, Communism, Socialism, Capitalist Welfare? Or something else? But it seems you are saying so called "woke" is fascist... but fascists are traditionally known for using social injustice to their power and control, not riling against it?

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

@NaffNaffBobFace you're a brave man for even attempting to engage in this thread. Salutations.

I'm pretty clueless about almost everything at the best of times so when things are bought up that I don't understand, like the so called "woke", I like to try to understand and you can only do that by asking the people who know about it

 

[Aramsolari]

I'm pretty clueless about almost everything at the best of times so when things are bought up that I don't understand, like the so called "woke", I like to try to understand and you can only do that by asking the people who know about it

Hey I've tried on my end. Ended up getting put on ignore because I was "woke" even though I too don't really understand the concept lol.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

I didn’t use the term “fascism” because most people don’t know what it means. It’s one sort of authoritarianism that arises through a malignant cooperation between corporations and government. I think instead it’s better to talk about the broader category of authoritarianism, and how that impacts freedom through coercion. These are crisper and more accessible terms that haven’t been muddled through so much misuse.

Woke is certainly CRT, Marxist, collectivist, radical egalitarian, etc. Left to its own devices it would eventually go to war with other foundations of Western Civilization like private property in just the same way Marxism and all collectivism does. Probably its hallmark though, is requiring equal outcomes. That’s the stuff of Kendi’s anti-racism, the book wars on modern campuses and all third stage post-modernism.

I didn’t propose anything new about Western Civ. Years ago you could not get any sort of academic degree without a full year of Western Civ, and because making a responsible member of society that was capable of self-governance was the goal of academics, that made sense. Everyone in the West used to agree about our heritage which includes The Bible as well as The Greeks. Most historians will say that Western Civilization is the combination of revelation out of Jerusalem and reason out of Athens. That’s a good summary. Today, anyone who lauds that tradition as central to human flourishing around the world is generally discounted as a White Supremecist, despite Jews, Northern Africans, and indigenous Americans are not white.

The hallmarks of Western Civilization are its values: realism, individualism, justice, mercy, equality, freedom, reason, industriousness, etc. as well as its outcomes: medicine, science, mathematics, economics, vast institution building, human flourishing. No matter how you define it, Western Civilization is the most successful, most copied, most transformative civilization in the history of the world. Admitting this will get you labeled a White Supremecist in many of today’s circles, but it’s simply a fact. No other civilization ended slavery, landed a man on the Moon or invented the flush toilet, so let’s give credit where it’s due.

I doubt I’m giving you specific answers so much as the framework to ask the questions. I hope that’s more helpful. It’s just not helpful to fling about terms like “fascist” when next to no one really understands what the term means. Certainly, no one at ANTIFA knows what fascist means. ANTIFA’s tactics are all drawn from fascists. If they knew what the term meant they’d surely choose another. Then they’d be stuck. They’d want to settle on being opposed to authoritarianism, and find nearly everyone in Western Civilization is opposed to authoritarianism. That would be terrible for their recruiting.

To return to the broader question of woke, let me propose to pierce the foggy and point out one very specific issue.

Throughout all Western Civilization there has been pretty uniform acceptance of what entails good and evil, especially as regards a special kind of evil known as “abomination”. Though abominations generally extend primarily toward sexual perversions, they also include things like child sacrifice, abortion (same thing), drinking blood especially in celebration of death, witchcraft, sorcery (includes especially hallucinogenic drug use), mediumship with “familiar spirits”, etc. It’s not an especially long list. These kinds of perversions earn the special moniker “abomination” because they’re deliberate refutations of God’s proper province over life. They seem to repudiate God’s character. They seek to mock.

Adultery is horrible, but it is the result of selfishness, passion, lack of discipline, etc. It does not mock God directly.

Alternatively, each and every time a little boy or girl claims God made a mistake and they’re in the wrong body, that is abomination.

You can see the difference. Today’s woke movement is not about arguing over adultery. It’s arguing over the very nature of existence. It’s arguing over God’s character and often asking “did God really say. ..?” in the same way that the serpent tempted Eve. Abomination is a whole new level of evil. It seeks not just to replace morals and values it doesn’t comprehend, it seeks to judge those values as wrong, and evil unto themselves. Woke therefore plays for the biggest of stakes.

 

[Sintha]

So this is what happens to a game forum after 10 years when there is hardly any game. This is wild, loving it. Keep it going you crazy yanks. Don't ever change

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

I didn’t use the term “fascism” because most people don’t know what it means. It’s one sort of authoritarianism that arises through a malignant cooperation between corporations and government. I think instead it’s better to talk about the broader category of authoritarianism, and how that impacts freedom through coercion. These are crisper and more accessible terms that haven’t been muddled through so much misuse.

Woke is certainly CRT, Marxist, collectivist, radical egalitarian, etc. Left to its own devices it would eventually go to war with other foundations of Western Civilization like private property in just the same way Marxism and all collectivism does. Probably its hallmark though, is requiring equal outcomes. That’s the stuff of Kendi’s anti-racism, the book wars on modern campuses and all third stage post-modernism.

I didn’t propose anything new about Western Civ. Years ago you could not get any sort of academic degree without a full year of Western Civ, and because making a responsible member of society that was capable of self-governance was the goal of academics, that made sense. Everyone in the West used to agree about our heritage which includes The Bible as well as The Greeks. Most historians will say that Western Civilization is the combination of revelation out of Jerusalem and reason out of Athens. That’s a good summary. Today, anyone who lauds that tradition as central to human flourishing around the world is generally discounted as a White Supremecist, despite Jews, Northern Africans, and indigenous Americans are not white.

The hallmarks of Western Civilization are its values: realism, individualism, justice, mercy, equality, freedom, reason, industriousness, etc. as well as its outcomes: medicine, science, mathematics, economics, vast institution building, human flourishing. No matter how you define it, Western Civilization is the most successful, most copied, most transformative civilization in the history of the world. Admitting this will get you labeled a White Supremacist in many of today’s circles, but it’s simply a fact. No other civilization ended slavery, landed a man on the Moon or invented the flush toilet, so let’s give credit where it’s due.

I doubt I’m giving you specific answers so much as the framework to ask the questions. I hope that’s more helpful. It’s just not helpful to fling about terms like “fascist” when next to no one really understands what the term means. Certainly, no one at ANTIFA knows what fascist means. ANTIFA’s tactics are all drawn from fascists. If they knew what the term meant they’d surely choose another. Then they’d be stuck. They’d want to settle on being opposed to authoritarianism, and find nearly everyone in Western Civilization is opposed to authoritarianism. That would be terrible for their recruiting.

To return to the broader question of woke, let me propose to pierce the foggy and point out one very specific issue.

Throughout all Western Civilization there has been pretty uniform acceptance of what entails good and evil, especially as regards a special kind of evil known as “abomination”. Though abominations generally extend primarily toward sexual perversions, they also include things like child sacrifice, abortion (same thing), drinking blood especially in celebration of death, witchcraft, sorcery (includes especially hallucinogenic drug use), mediumship with “familiar spirits”, etc. It’s not an especially long list. These kinds of perversions earn the special moniker “abomination” because they’re deliberate refutations of God’s proper province over life. They seem to repudiate God’s character. They seek to mock.

Adultery is horrible, but it is the result of selfishness, passion, lack of discipline, etc. It does not mock God directly.

Alternatively, each and every time a little boy or girl claims God made a mistake and they’re in the wrong body, that is abomination.

You can see the difference. Today’s woke movement is not about arguing over adultery. It’s arguing over the very nature of existence. It’s arguing over God’s character and often asking “did God really say. ..?” in the same way that the serpent tempted Eve. Abomination is a whole new level of evil. It seeks not just to replace morals and values it doesn’t comprehend, it seeks to judge those values as wrong, and evil unto themselves. Woke therefore plays for the biggest of stakes.

It is comforting to see you have great faith and take strength viewing the world through its teachings and approach existences trials and tribulations via its learnings and examples.

It is undeniable what is written in scripture is record of what may offend a deity, however I note while finding meaning in those writings is very important it is also very prone to interpretation - indeed we have discussed the foundation of Christianity itself being an interpretive offshoot of another older religion, if interpretation didn't happen we would not have such a rich world of cultures and faiths in the first place... even down to what personally interests a reader, where one person reads things they identify as identifying abomination and aberrations in the eyes of the creator and what may earn their fiery vengeance, others may focus and find foundation in teachings of turning the other cheek, loving ones fellow man and other tales of tolerance and general compassion. I do not wish to challenge your beliefs or faith in any way, however heartily recommend while studying things which lead to righteousness please don't forget to also look at the things that teach love and understanding about one another too - it's all there in the same book and one set of teachings is just as important as the others. To coin a phrase: All salt and no sweet can only lead to high blood pressure.

---

Moving away from faith back to the so called "Woke" discussion, being aware of local and global social injustice isn't really much to do with the Anti-fascist organised protest movement... no one need do anything other than say "Listen chaps, don't be twats" when they see a bunch of kids picking on another kid for wearing the wrong colour jacket. Even something as simple as that is something which could be termed as Woke, seeing something unjust and calling it out... It's a social injustice which you can stand up to and importantly not tolerate.

The old saying goes "All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" and in many instances minority subjects like Gender issues, Race issues etc are only really in the public eye because they are amplified and are being used as a tool of public coercion to create division between members of the greater public and subsets of the population who can't do anything to defend themselves, creating an "us" and "them" mentality to forward an alternate unrelated agenda. It's a very fascist tactic to create a movement of shared purpose, focusing on a common enemy which I'm sure you are aware has been used to heinous effect, and in some cases genocidal effect, throughout recent history...

"Woke"... Anti-fascist... They may appear to be similar in method but just as a dinner knife shares many qualities of a dagger, it remains at its core just a dinner knife, a tool for consuming food. If "Woke" really is a thing at all, it's not necessarily a movement that is geared up to actively repress - just as a cutlery maker doesn't intend or want their eating tools to take lives, I doubt the majority of those alert to and willing to call out social injustice want or intend for their willingness to not tolerate unjust and asshole behaviour to repress their fellow man.

There is one thing the word "Woke" does appear to be, though, and that is a tool of repression itself... Just as you are concerned about being called "white supremacist" for holding certain opinions which likely are not suprematist in themselves, the term "woke" is being used in a similar manner to delegitimise and shout down legitimate concerns about unjust actions and agendas. Just as politicians may use rhetoric to try to discredit the professionals of the Justice system to evade scrutiny of their transgressions, the term Woke is being used to discredit legitimate concerns about unjust attitudes to things like race, migration, gender issues and more as something which can be waved away with a single, ignorable, word.

When I hear the word "Woke" I ask myself what the agenda those saying it have been convinced to try to defend or hide, rather than what the thing is the "Woke" person is trying to call out, because for the most part these "Woke" issues really are minority problems which don't effect many people outside of the tiny community being unjustly treated is experiencing, but have been amplified somehow in to the greater public consciousness.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

I think there’s a great deal more insidious here than you suspect. Why is it the woke generation is in all things vastly more uneducated and ignorant? Surely it’s by design. Kids do not learn history for very specific reasons.

I could buy this notion that woke is just the latest iteration of adolescent self-righteousness save that it shows so many signs of having been deliberately engineered. The kids these days are ignorant by design. The question is by who’s design and to what end?

And obviously I utterly reject your hand waving past the contents of 3,000 years teachings. What a wretched pseudo-argument. No. You do not simply wave the term “interpretation” like some magic wand and dispense with thousands of years of clear teaching.

Western Civilization has held a cannon of belief about right and wrong for over 3,000 years. This is where its success comes from. When suddenly a movement of mostly ignorant children comes along and boldly claims to know better than everyone before them, you do not handwave that aside with muttering of interpretation. That is not even close to approaching the issue.

The onus is on the spoiled, bratty, narcissistic, ignorant, entitled generation to explain how their lack of morality is preferable to all that came before, and attempts to this end have been utterly feeble.

News flash: concerns over social justice are found in every society throughout human history. Nowhere are they found more prominently than in the ancient Jewish prophets. In fact, the calls of those prophets for social justice is exactly what got them killed. Likewise, the central figure in all Greek philosophy, Socrates; was killed because he was so annoying to the aristocrats over social justice issues. The greatest social rebel in all human history, Jesus Christ; was executed for charges of blasphemy. He ticked off the Jewish leaders by claiming to be the Creator. However, the Jewish authorities did not have the power to execute, so they accused Christ of general rabble rousing along social justice issues until the Roman’s finally consented to kill him, despite they found no guilt in him.

The entire cannon of Western Civilization is thus permeated with social justice issues, start to finish. Woke is not a revolution in social justice. It is not even an evolution. It is a denunciation of previous values and a call to replace them with broken ones.

If we’re going to reason together about the topic of woke, then let’s do that and not instead play pretend.

We’re not here just talking about a generation too deliberately incompetent to change a flat tire. We’re talking about a generation that doesn’t seek drivers licenses because they avoid all adult responsibility. We’re not talking about a generation that has no idea how to form a logical syllogism that avoids logical fallacy. We’re talking about a generation that has replaced all reason with whatever feels good. These people pretend to champion vacant values because their second grade teachers convinced them they’re always right and all of their history, their institutions, their elders including their parents are wrong. This is what woke is.

Your argument seems to be these addled children make a valid point. Children who cannot tell you what is a woman, somehow just know the morally right thing is to endorse every delusion of their generation. That’s crazy. Woke is utterly insane and only addled minds can accept it. Two men will be competing against each other in the next Miss Universe pageant. Sheer and utter madness.

Cutting the healthy breasts off a 12 year old girl because someone convinced her this will fix her confusion is objectively, morally EVIL. No sane person indulges in disputes on issues like this. Rather, they look on in dismay that Civilization is indeed on its last legs.

I don’t know who is responsible for the rise of the woke insanity. I do know that Bezmenov detailed how this works for the American public four decades ago. If I had to guess, I think some shadowy force like the WEF is behind woke. Certainly it’s someone with money. They’re paying people to fly from riot to riot around the country and they’ll be doing it again before the next Presidential election. Judge for yourself whether this here below in the hands of someone other than the KGB doesn’t explain what we observe around us today. Woke is certainly being managed, nurtured, and turned into a civilization-killing contagion. If the WEF gets its way, this will leave us all eating bugs.

View: https://youtu.be/pOmXiapfCs8?si=DDlRC1s8-K-uv9_M

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

I think there’s a great deal more insidious here than you suspect. Why is it the woke generation is in all things vastly more uneducated and ignorant? Surely it’s by design. Kids do not learn history for very specific reasons.

I could buy this notion that woke is just the latest iteration of adolescent self-righteousness save that it shows so many signs of having been deliberately engineered. The kids these days are ignorant by design. The question is by who’s design and to what end?

And obviously I utterly reject your hand waving past the contents of 3,000 years teachings. What a wretched pseudo-argument. No. You do not simply wave the term “interpretation” like some magic wand and dispense with thousands of years of clear teaching.

Western Civilization has held a cannon of belief about right and wrong for over 3,000 years. This is where its success comes from. When suddenly a movement of mostly ignorant children comes along and boldly claims to know better than everyone before them, you do not handwave that aside with muttering of interpretation. That is not even close to approaching the issue.

The onus is on the spoiled, bratty, narcissistic, ignorant, entitled generation to explain how their lack of morality is preferable to all that came before, and attempts to this end have been utterly feeble.

News flash: concerns over social justice are found in every society throughout human history. Nowhere are they found more prominently than in the ancient Jewish prophets. In fact, the calls of those prophets for social justice is exactly what got them killed. Likewise, the central figure in all Greek philosophy, Socrates; was killed because he was so annoying to the aristocrats over social justice issues. The greatest social rebel in all human history, Jesus Christ; was executed for charges of blasphemy. He ticked off the Jewish leaders by claiming to be the Creator. However, the Jewish authorities did not have the power to execute, so they accused Christ of general rabble rousing along social justice issues until the Roman’s finally consented to kill him, despite they found no guilt in him.

The entire cannon of Western Civilization is thus permeated with social justice issues, start to finish. Woke is not a revolution in social justice. It is not even an evolution. It is a denunciation of previous values and a call to replace them with broken ones.

If we’re going to reason together about the topic of woke, then let’s do that and not instead play pretend.

We’re not here just talking about a generation too deliberately incompetent to change a flat tire. We’re talking about a generation that doesn’t seek drivers licenses because they avoid all adult responsibility. We’re not talking about a generation that has no idea how to form a logical syllogism that avoids logical fallacy. We’re talking about a generation that has replaced all reason with whatever feels good. These people pretend to champion vacant values because their second grade teachers convinced them they’re always right and all of their history, their institutions, their elders including their parents are wrong. This is what woke is.

Your argument seems to be these addled children make a valid point. Children who cannot tell you what is a woman, somehow just know the morally right thing is to endorse every delusion of their generation. That’s crazy. Woke is utterly insane and only addled minds can accept it. Two men will be competing against each other in the next Miss Universe pageant. Sheer and utter madness.

Cutting the healthy breasts off a 12 year old girl because someone convinced her this will fix her confusion is objectively, morally EVIL. No sane person indulges in disputes on issues like this. Rather, they look on in dismay that Civilization is indeed on its last legs.

I don’t know who is responsible for the rise of the woke insanity. I do know that Bezmenov detailed how this works for the American public four decades ago. If I had to guess, I think some shadowy force like the WEF is behind woke. Certainly it’s someone with money. They’re paying people to fly from riot to riot around the country and they’ll be doing it again before the next Presidential election. Judge for yourself whether this here below in the hands of someone other than the KGB doesn’t explain what we observe around us today. Woke is certainly being managed, nurtured, and turned into a civilization-killing contagion. If the WEF gets its way, this will leave us all eating bugs.

View: https://youtu.be/pOmXiapfCs8?si=DDlRC1s8-K-uv9_M

So what is it that so affronts you about someone you don't know and have never met, who is of sound body and mind, deciding X about their life which only effects them and people like them, is way Y?

So what?

I mean have you actually ever used a public toilet at the same time as a man who had transitioned from being a woman in it? And if you have, how did you know they were? Does this affront to you really exist on a scale you appear to have been convinced it does? By their very nature minorities are not very common at all and it is very likely you have never encountered many, if any, of the things that so affront?

And what makes that so much more important to you personally than other more prescient things going wrong in the world around you like, for example, democratically elected representatives running countries for their own gain rather than for the good of the country they are supposed to be running?

I've already alluded to a group common enemy in minorities and the deligitamising of legal justice and the calling out of unacceptable behaviour normalizing brushing off concerns as a single ignorable word... and here I also point out distraction from bigger more important things... all of these also have leanings of the sisister. So that is more vile, so called Woke or the actions which can be justified by claiming those concerned about the plight of their fellow man is such?

In short: Why do minorities scare you, and why is it so important these nothingburger issues are prioritised and riled against while legit global problams, fraud and mass deception are given a free pass?

 

[Aramsolari]

The 2,500-year-old history of adults blaming the younger generation

and this classic....

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGrfhsxxmdE&ab_channel=ThingsICantFindOtherwise

 

[Shadow Reaper]

Minorities do not scare me. People who think they can at a whim, redefine reality in such a way as to enable predators in women’s bathrooms scare me. People who take no adult responsibilities in life who think they should stipulate to others their delusions scare me. People who prey upon others with pseudo-arguments about X and Y so they don’t actually have to say how deeply psychotic they are, scare me.

While we’re on the subject of what is most upsetting about woke, I’ll own that queers deliberately trying to queer our children do indeed evoke my wrath. It’s not enough for queers to be queer. They clearly demonstrate a need to infect children with their contagion. This forces the issue on everyone.

The twisted little men you’re supporting do not get to decide how reality works. If they are men, and they are found in the women’s bathrooms, locker rooms and showers, they have earned harsh penalties. If they appeal to pre-pubescent children with twisted queer sex, they have earned harsh penalties. It doesn’t matter how many of the addle-minded think such violations are okay. It doesn’t matter how many morons think lipstick on a pig makes it any other than a pig. Reality abides.

For yourself you should answer some basic questions about the power of “identification”. Keep in mind that healthy individuals do not care how you identify, until you try to force your madness upon them. We just don’t care how many men parade about in dresses and lipstick, until those men want to share private spaces with our mothers, sisters and daughters. Then, we have a problem.

I just want to say at this juncture I no longer respect you. You have degenerated the discussion to the “why does it matter?” level which clearly demonstrates you care nothing for truth. You have sacrificed the truth for the sake of your own virtue signaling and the kindness you’re pretending is a sham. It is not kind to abandon these people in their delusions. It is merely expedient for you. There is no point in discussion with those who care nothing for truth. You have thus disqualified yourself from adult conversation.

“Why does it matter?” If you have to ask you are unfit for such discussion. Here’s a hint for you though. It certainly matters to that little girl who was raped in the girls bathroom down in VA. Yes, it really matters. It matters too that the school board then loosed her predator on another school where he repeated his victimization of a young girl. This matters. How can anyone resembling sane not think this matters?

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

Keep in mind that healthy individuals do not care how you identify

That is indeed exactly what I was saying in my previous post. I am pleased we are on the same wavelength in that regard. Alas the rest of your post seems to have missed that resonant tone somewhat.

My final word on this is that I am not defending evil actions, I deplore them as we all should, but I am not segregating them either: I recognise everything you have listed you fear is behaviour not limited to those different to you or I, yet you appear to single those sections of society out for wrath while these are things which can and have been performed by priests, presidents, millionaires, straights, non-straight and every single other walk of life in-between and all other sections of society from the highest elites to the lowest peons and I question why it is the people who can't defend themselves who get special attention when acts of evil are not limited to being performed by just them. Who convinced you that behaviour by someone who had a different gender identity to you is abhorrent and worthy of persecution of that entire group based on the actions of just a few of them, while that behaviour by someone with the same gender identity as you, while bad, is not worthy of righteous anger and blanket repression of the same group of people you yourself belong to based on the actions of a few evildoers?

It is my final word on the matter because of this:

I just want to say at this juncture I no longer respect you. You have degenerated the discussion to the “why does it matter?” level which clearly demonstrates you care nothing for truth. You have sacrificed the truth for the sake of your own virtue signaling and the kindness you’re pretending is a sham. It is not kind to abandon these people in their delusions. It is merely expedient for you. There is no point in discussion with those who care nothing for truth. You have thus disqualified yourself from adult conversation.

To this point i have been trying to explore the topic, work out what "woke" actually is if it even exists at all and understand you, but this...?

You have been on this forum for a long time. You have had many a conversation not only with me but with many others over the years and been most pleasant and a credit to the GLORY of TEST... but this... this is most unTESTly. I am very disappointed in you and will no longer be a party to this.

You have succeeded in pushing me away which is likely what you desire, and you have also lost my cooperation.

I pray you find peace with whatever darkness is eating at you, but I will no longer strive to understand and potentially learn from you if indeed you had anything to teach me in the first place, which given your above outburst, I am beginning to doubt.

Good day to you sir.

 

[Aramsolari]

@NaffNaffBobFace

Could have saved yourself the grief pages and pages ago, mate.

Dude is convinced in his righteousness and that any view contrary to his is woke/degenerate/whatever.

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

@NaffNaffBobFace

Could have saved yourself the grief pages and pages ago, mate.

Dude is convinced in his righteousness and that any view contrary to his is woke/degenerate/whatever.

I try to understand others points of view and we were starting to move in a direction where we would have been able to dissect and extrapolate evil acts and unconventional lifestyles and examine how they are in no way exclusive to and of each other, however untestly conduct is one thing I will never tollerate and refuse to be associated with.

However my ears and mind are open to an apology: To error is Human, to TEST, devine!

 

[Shadow Reaper]

You can pretend and virtue signal all you like but I think it’s pretty obvious you have no concern for truth. So I repeat, there is nowhere for this conversation to go. You have outted yourself. Without an interest in truth, this is futile.

Someday you may wake and realize the truth. You cannot approach issues like this when your chief concern is your appearance. That’s virtue signaling and it is wholly at odds with seeking truth.

It’s the truth that sets us free. Learn to love it more than appearing kind. You are most unkind, intolerant and unloving because you’ve made this all about you.

 

[Aramsolari]

However my ears and mind are open to an apology: To error is Human, to TEST, devine!

Yeah you’re not going to get an apology.

There’s a reason why these forums and the Discord server have a pretty strict no politics/religion policy. It’s to prevent this sort of nonsense from happening.

Look at this thread. It’s commentary on a YouTube video that immediately veers off to the usual anti-feminist/woke/whatever rant. Op has done this on several occasions now. Usually the threads he starts devolve to socio political rants before they eventually fade away because most Test members get turned off.

Folks are here to have discussions about SC, gaming, popular culture stuff, beer, and how glorious Dear Leader is. That’s it.

Let’s leave the real world bullshit behind. This really isn’t the venue for it. I think most of us don’t have the time and patience for ‘Iamverysmart’ posts.