Coronavirus COVID-19 Thread

[NaffNaffBobFace]

COVID Catharsis Corner - Reports from around the world from today, Monday 2nd of August:

- World: 198,707,823 confirmed cases and 4,229,662 confirmed deaths.

- Beer: Heineken makes strong recovery back into profit following large losses last year, but still below pre-pandemic levels.

- US: Passes 35 million confirmed cases.

- US: Florida breaks previous record of current hospitalisations, at 10,207 in that state alone. The previous record which was also over 10,170 was set last year before vaccines were available.

- Canada: Catches and fines travellers from the US with fake vaccination papers $16,000 (USD) each.

- UK: Track and Trace app (in connotation with the NHS) to be modified to lower contact rates after all, following a period of uncertainty where it was specified it was, then wasn't, but now will be again. This time, it will only advise you if a contact from the previous two days has tested positive rather than the previous 5 days. It takes about 7 days for symptomatic infection to show itself.

- UK: Testing of two of Londons busiest railway stations and trains which run between the two indicated no traces of COVID-19 in air samples and swabs of commonly used surfaces such as door handles. Station officials indicated they would continue to do their part with rigorous cleaning procedures and asked that travellers continued to wear masks and observe distancing guidance.

- UK: First travellers from 'Amber List' countries arrive following removal of quarantine restriction for the fully vaccinated. Critics warn this is an open door to importing variants.

- UK: Reports emerge the chief official at the Joint Biosecurity Centre which advises the government on Travel restrictions has quit. Apparently no one is currently in the position leaving the outfit 'Rudderless'.

- China: Delta outbreak continues, with over 300 cases detected in the last 10 days.

- Iran: Sees record high new daily cases.

- Philippines: Lockdown to return on Friday as Capital city hospitals come close to being overwealmed.

- Germany: To begin Booster shots from September.

- Poland: Two vaccination centres are subjected to arson attacks and another has an attempted break in by Antivax activists.

- Morocco: Announces new Curfew measures.

- Australia: Queensland extends lockdown.

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

I think Covid19 is here to stay, it'll be a matter of us living with it. Previous versions of Coronaviruses like SARS and MERS came and went. Covid19 and it's variants aren't necessarily deadlier but they're certainly much more transmissible. I doubt it'll disappear anytime soon.

I think in time people will just have to 'get on with it'. Things probably won't get back to normal anytime soon though. Vaccines will certainly remain useful (albeit contentious) and people will continue to wear masks (whether it's effective or not).

My hope is that medical technologies in the pipeline will make vaccines easier to administer. There's some promise that it can be inhaled or taken in pill form. It'll certainly make things easier for people who have a phobia for needles.

I don't think you or anyone else who have said that in the thread is wrong on that point, and I hope it will settle into a more predictable set of stable variants which can be controlled on an everyday level or even better as I say therapeutics will make it a mundane experience to catch a COVID, however to misquote someone or other:

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of a global pandemic is for great minds to do nothing.”

We are human. To quote a movie I once watched eleven of twelve times:

"If man realizes technology is within reach, he achieves it. Like it's damn-near instinctive."

 

[Shadow Reaper]

- Poland: Two vaccination centres are subjected to arson attacks and another has an attempted break in by Antivax activists.

Is anyone familiar with the basis of this anti-vax argument? This is the first I've heard of them getting violent and I'm curious.

 

[Bambooza]

Nope. I'm suggesting that the goal most of the world was/is aiming for should not be abandoned and forgotten about just because individually a person can be individually safe if they have been vaccinated but remain a risk to others.

I am truly sorry as I am not sure I understand what you are saying.

It is my understanding that your goal is to get the world's population to the point where Corona strain Covid19 is no longer being actively transmitted. That those who might come into contact with an active case will not get infected and/or subsequently pass it on to others.

If my understanding of the goal is correct then I will say this is a very unrealistic goal for the following reasons.

Immunity is not that you are impervious to the infection, that you can not get infected or during the infected phase not be shedding the virus, it simply means one natural immunity cells are hopefully able to quickly respond. Age and health also greatly factor into the immune response and its entirely possible that a young healthy person who is simply stressed out about a final exam would even after getting a vaccine end up with a higher viral load, more virus shedding, and longer recovery time then if they were not stressed.

Types of Vaccines
The key to vaccines is injecting the antigens into the body without causing the person to get sick at the same time. Scientists have developed several ways of doing this, and each approach makes for a different type of vaccine.

Live Attenuated Vaccines: For these types of vaccines, a weaker, asymptomatic form of the virus or bacteria is introduced into the body. Because it is weakened, the pathogen will not spread and cause sickness, but the immune system will still learn to recognize its antigens and know to fight in the future.

• Advantages: Because these vaccines introduce actual live pathogens into the body, it is an excellent simulation for the immune system. So live attenuated vaccines can result in lifelong immunity with just one or two doses.
• Disadvantages: Because they contain living pathogens, live attenuated vaccines are not given to people with weakened immune systems, such as people undergoing chemotherapy or HIV treatment, as there is a risk the pathogen could get stronger and cause sickness. Additionally, these vaccines must be refrigerated at all times so the weakened pathogen doesn't die.
• Specific Vaccines:
  • Measles
  • Mumps
  • Rubella (MMR combined vaccine)
  • Varicella (chickenpox)
  • Influenza (nasal spray)
  • Rotavirus

Inactivated Vaccines: For these vaccines, the specific virus or bacteria is killed with heat or chemicals, and its dead cells are introduced into the body. Even though the pathogen is dead, the immune system can still learn from its antigens how to fight live versions of it in the future.

• Advantages: These vaccines can be freeze dried and easily stored because there is no risk of killing the pathogen as there is with live attenuated vaccines. They are also safer, without the risk of the virus or bacteria mutating back into its disease-causing form.
• Disadvantages: Because the virus or bacteria is dead, it's not as accurate a simulation of the real thing as a live attenuated virus. Therefore, it often takes several doses and "booster shots" to train the body to defend itself.
• Specific Vaccines:
  • Polio (IPV)
  • Hepatitis A
  • Rabies

Subunit/conjugate Vaccines: For some diseases, scientists are able to isolate a specific protein or carbohydrate from the pathogen that, when injected into the body, can train the immune system to react without provoking sickness.

• Advantages: With these vaccines, the chance of an adverse reaction in the patient is much lower, because only a part or the original pathogen is injected into the body instead of the whole thing.
• Disadvantages: Identifying the best antigens in the pathogen for training the immune system and then separating them is not always possible. Only certain vaccines can be produced in this way.
• Specific Vaccines:
  • Hepatitis B
  • Influenza
  • Haemophilus Influenzae Type B (Hib)
  • Pertussis (part of DTaP combined immunization)
  • Pneumococcal
  • Human Papillomavirus (HPV)
  • Meningococcal

Toxoid Vaccines: Some bacterial diseases damage the body by secreting harmful chemicals or toxins. For these bacteria, scientists are able to "deactivate" some of the toxins using a mixture of formaldehyde and water. These dead toxins are then safely injected into the body. The immune system learns well enough from the dead toxins to fight off living toxins, should they ever make an appearance.

• Specific Vaccines:
  • Diphtheria
  • Tetanus

Conjugate Vaccines: Some bacteria, like those of Hib disease, possess an outer coating of sugar molecules that camouflage their antigens and fool young immune systems. To get around this problem, scientists can link an antigen from another recognizable pathogen to the sugary coating of the camouflaged bacteria. As a result, the body's immune system learns to recognize the sugary camouflage itself as harmful and immediately attacks it and its carrier if it enters the body.

• Specific Vaccines:
  • Haemophilus Influenzae Type B (Hib)

DNA Vaccines: Still in experimental stages, DNA vaccines would dispense with all unnecessary parts of a bacterium or virus and instead contain just an injection of a few parts of the pathogen's DNA. These DNA strands would instruct the immune system to produce antigens for combating the pathogen all by itself. As a result, these vaccines would be very efficient immune system trainers. They are also cheap and easy to produce.

• Specific Vaccines: DNA vaccines for influenza and herpes are currently in human testing phases.

Recombinant Vector Vaccines: These experimental vaccines are similar to DNA vaccines in that they introduce DNA from a harmful pathogen into the body, triggering the immune system to produce antigens and train itself to identify and combat the disease. The difference is that these vaccines use an attenuated, or weakened, virus or bacterium as a ride, or vector, for the DNA. In essence, scientists are able to take a harmless pathogen, dress it in the DNA of a more dangerous disease, and train the body to recognize and fight both effectively.

• Specific Vaccines: Recombinant vector vaccines for HIV, rabies, and measles are currently being developed.

Things that so far have proven resilient to any attempt to derive a vaccine for like HIV and Herpes are because of how the virus interacts with the body bypassing the advances in training the natural immune response. Remember the vaccine doesn't prevent you from the initial point of infection, it simply speeds up the body's response to the infection, which is the same response that happens naturally to subsequent infections by the same pathogen.

As for eradication of diseases, only smallpox has been declared eradicated by vaccination. 13 others have been significantly reduced in a number of countries but are not yet eradicated, all 13 of are not known to exist in a carrier state and thus once they are eradicated in the human population they should be gone.

In fact, smallpox vaccine was first created due to a less severe zoonotic strain cowpox which allowed for further development on vaccine research.

Influenza (common cause of the seasonal flu) requires a yearly shot and its effectiveness varies year to year depending on the strains that are prevalent in your area and the forecasted strains included in the yearly vaccination (6 months from when the commit decides now which strains to include to when made available). Influenza, like Corona, has several carrier animal populations and is highly zoonotic combined with high mutational evolution allows it to escape the immunity that is induced by prior infections or vaccinations. Here are some more links if you wish to dive deeper into how this works. The Evolution of seasonal influenza viruses, Comparison of the mutation rates of human influenza A and B Viruses, SARS-CoV-2 and influenza: a comparative overview and treatment implications.

The end result is Corona Virus which Covid19 is an offspring of has been around a long time, is highly mutable which creates a difficult obstacle to preventing and controlling by vaccination. Herd immunity was never about eradicating Covid19 but about reducing the severity of the infection in individuals and thus reducing long-term complications and death in the population. If the novel strain SARS-Cov-2 had been caught and not allowed to spread beyond Wuhan then it might have been eradicated as it would not have had a chance to infect animal carrier populations like the previous generation. But on a whole Corona will continue to infect animals and humans and produce new novel strains. Human Coronavirus Types People around the world commonly get infected with human coronaviruses 229E, NL63, OC43, and HKU1. I will wager that list going forward will now include SARS-Cov-2 and 10 to 15% of the world's population will be infected by it on a semi-yearly basis and will not be able to tell the difference between it and Influenza. In a year or two as much as it frustrates me we will be back to people going to school and work sick and sharing their cold.

 

[Jolly_Green_Giant]

Another thing I wanted to add from my conversation with my uncle is that he said only something like 25% of the frontline workers in Miami are vaccinated, and the other 75%, mainly nurses / hospital staff, are not wanting to get the vaccine. I think he said only 50% of his department is vaccinated. I tried to find some sources on this but I only found one from January stating it was 50%. The story is still the same either way.

Half of Miami's COVID frontline passed on vaccines. Leaders should ask why, experts say (msn.com)

One from march from WaPo showing its a nationwide thing.

Many health-care workers have not gotten a coronavirus vaccine - The Washington Post

Here are some headlines out of the Tampa Bay area. Hospitals are suspending elective surgeries and visitations again.

Tampa Bay Hospitals Sound Alarm With Wave Of Delta Variant Cases | Tampa, FL Patch

BayCare to pause some elective procedures as virus cases surge (tampabay.com)

Bay Area hospitals restrict visitors as Florida breaks records for COVID-19 cases, hospitalizations (fox13news.com)

It says "some" electives, but on the TV broadcast it said they were stopping all electives.

 

[Bambooza]

I think Covid19 is here to stay, it'll be a matter of us living with it. Previous versions of Coronaviruses like SARS and MERS came and went. Covid19 and it's variants aren't necessarily deadlier but they're certainly much more transmissible. I doubt it'll disappear anytime soon.

I think in time people will just have to 'get on with it'. Things probably won't get back to normal anytime soon though. Vaccines will certainly remain useful (albeit contentious) and people will continue to wear masks (whether it's effective or not).

I do hope someone finds the funds to do a real study on the spread of viruses like Influenza and Coronavirus and thus be able to give a real number to the effectiveness of masks. And I think as this goes on more people are just going back to their old lives and no longer caring. In fact, it might be for the best as there was a higher flu vaccination uptake with less fuss when it's not so tied to political parties (I know we like to blame red states and conservatives at the moment but how quickly we forget back in September the liberals were quick to say they would not trust the vaccine).

At the same time, most Americans worry that the political pressure from the administration will lead the Food and Drug Administration to rush to approve a coronavirus vaccine without making sure it’s safe and effective. That includes 85% of Democrats, 61% of independents and 35% of Republicans, according to Kaiser.

My hope is that medical technologies in the pipeline will make vaccines easier to administer. There's some promise that it can be inhaled or taken in pill form. It'll certainly make things easier for people who have a phobia for needles.

Oh how I hate needles and I know it's irrational and most of the time I don't even know I've been poked but still, I need to look away. But you are right to think the technology that was exploring using the body's immune response to treat cancer has been quickly adapted to create a vaccine for a novel strain of a known virus. While we are still far from maximizing the potential of the natural immune response I believe the next real breakthrough will need to be beyond triggering an immune response and creating ways to fight infections directly.

 

[Vavrik]

I am truly sorry as I am not sure I understand what you are saying.

It is my understanding that your goal is to get the world's population to the point where Corona strain Covid19 is no longer being actively transmitted. That those who might come into contact with an active case will not get infected and/or subsequently pass it on to others.

If my understanding of the goal is correct then I will say this is a very unrealistic goal for the following reasons.

Immunity is not that you are impervious to the infection, that you can not get infected or during the infected phase not be shedding the virus, it simply means one natural immunity cells are hopefully able to quickly respond. Age and health also greatly factor into the immune response and its entirely possible that a young healthy person who is simply stressed out about a final exam would even after getting a vaccine end up with a higher viral load, more virus shedding, and longer recovery time then if they were not stressed.

Types of Vaccines
The key to vaccines is injecting the antigens into the body without causing the person to get sick at the same time. Scientists have developed several ways of doing this, and each approach makes for a different type of vaccine.

Live Attenuated Vaccines: For these types of vaccines, a weaker, asymptomatic form of the virus or bacteria is introduced into the body. Because it is weakened, the pathogen will not spread and cause sickness, but the immune system will still learn to recognize its antigens and know to fight in the future.

• Advantages: Because these vaccines introduce actual live pathogens into the body, it is an excellent simulation for the immune system. So live attenuated vaccines can result in lifelong immunity with just one or two doses.
• Disadvantages: Because they contain living pathogens, live attenuated vaccines are not given to people with weakened immune systems, such as people undergoing chemotherapy or HIV treatment, as there is a risk the pathogen could get stronger and cause sickness. Additionally, these vaccines must be refrigerated at all times so the weakened pathogen doesn't die.
• Specific Vaccines:
  • Measles
  • Mumps
  • Rubella (MMR combined vaccine)
  • Varicella (chickenpox)
  • Influenza (nasal spray)
  • Rotavirus

Inactivated Vaccines: For these vaccines, the specific virus or bacteria is killed with heat or chemicals, and its dead cells are introduced into the body. Even though the pathogen is dead, the immune system can still learn from its antigens how to fight live versions of it in the future.

• Advantages: These vaccines can be freeze dried and easily stored because there is no risk of killing the pathogen as there is with live attenuated vaccines. They are also safer, without the risk of the virus or bacteria mutating back into its disease-causing form.
• Disadvantages: Because the virus or bacteria is dead, it's not as accurate a simulation of the real thing as a live attenuated virus. Therefore, it often takes several doses and "booster shots" to train the body to defend itself.
• Specific Vaccines:
  • Polio (IPV)
  • Hepatitis A
  • Rabies

Subunit/conjugate Vaccines: For some diseases, scientists are able to isolate a specific protein or carbohydrate from the pathogen that, when injected into the body, can train the immune system to react without provoking sickness.

• Advantages: With these vaccines, the chance of an adverse reaction in the patient is much lower, because only a part or the original pathogen is injected into the body instead of the whole thing.
• Disadvantages: Identifying the best antigens in the pathogen for training the immune system and then separating them is not always possible. Only certain vaccines can be produced in this way.
• Specific Vaccines:
  • Hepatitis B
  • Influenza
  • Haemophilus Influenzae Type B (Hib)
  • Pertussis (part of DTaP combined immunization)
  • Pneumococcal
  • Human Papillomavirus (HPV)
  • Meningococcal

Toxoid Vaccines: Some bacterial diseases damage the body by secreting harmful chemicals or toxins. For these bacteria, scientists are able to "deactivate" some of the toxins using a mixture of formaldehyde and water. These dead toxins are then safely injected into the body. The immune system learns well enough from the dead toxins to fight off living toxins, should they ever make an appearance.

• Specific Vaccines:
  • Diphtheria
  • Tetanus

Conjugate Vaccines: Some bacteria, like those of Hib disease, possess an outer coating of sugar molecules that camouflage their antigens and fool young immune systems. To get around this problem, scientists can link an antigen from another recognizable pathogen to the sugary coating of the camouflaged bacteria. As a result, the body's immune system learns to recognize the sugary camouflage itself as harmful and immediately attacks it and its carrier if it enters the body.

• Specific Vaccines:
  • Haemophilus Influenzae Type B (Hib)

DNA Vaccines: Still in experimental stages, DNA vaccines would dispense with all unnecessary parts of a bacterium or virus and instead contain just an injection of a few parts of the pathogen's DNA. These DNA strands would instruct the immune system to produce antigens for combating the pathogen all by itself. As a result, these vaccines would be very efficient immune system trainers. They are also cheap and easy to produce.

• Specific Vaccines: DNA vaccines for influenza and herpes are currently in human testing phases.

Recombinant Vector Vaccines: These experimental vaccines are similar to DNA vaccines in that they introduce DNA from a harmful pathogen into the body, triggering the immune system to produce antigens and train itself to identify and combat the disease. The difference is that these vaccines use an attenuated, or weakened, virus or bacterium as a ride, or vector, for the DNA. In essence, scientists are able to take a harmless pathogen, dress it in the DNA of a more dangerous disease, and train the body to recognize and fight both effectively.

• Specific Vaccines: Recombinant vector vaccines for HIV, rabies, and measles are currently being developed.

Things that so far have proven resilient to any attempt to derive a vaccine for like HIV and Herpes are because of how the virus interacts with the body bypassing the advances in training the natural immune response. Remember the vaccine doesn't prevent you from the initial point of infection, it simply speeds up the body's response to the infection, which is the same response that happens naturally to subsequent infections by the same pathogen.

As for eradication of diseases, only smallpox has been declared eradicated by vaccination. 13 others have been significantly reduced in a number of countries but are not yet eradicated, all 13 of are not known to exist in a carrier state and thus once they are eradicated in the human population they should be gone.

In fact, smallpox vaccine was first created due to a less severe zoonotic strain cowpox which allowed for further development on vaccine research.

Influenza (common cause of the seasonal flu) requires a yearly shot and its effectiveness varies year to year depending on the strains that are prevalent in your area and the forecasted strains included in the yearly vaccination (6 months from when the commit decides now which strains to include to when made available). Influenza, like Corona, has several carrier animal populations and is highly zoonotic combined with high mutational evolution allows it to escape the immunity that is induced by prior infections or vaccinations. Here are some more links if you wish to dive deeper into how this works. The Evolution of seasonal influenza viruses, Comparison of the mutation rates of human influenza A and B Viruses, SARS-CoV-2 and influenza: a comparative overview and treatment implications.

The end result is Corona Virus which Covid19 is an offspring of has been around a long time, is highly mutable which creates a difficult obstacle to preventing and controlling by vaccination. Herd immunity was never about eradicating Covid19 but about reducing the severity of the infection in individuals and thus reducing long-term complications and death in the population. If the novel strain SARS-Cov-2 had been caught and not allowed to spread beyond Wuhan then it might have been eradicated as it would not have had a chance to infect animal carrier populations like the previous generation. But on a whole Corona will continue to infect animals and humans and produce new novel strains. Human Coronavirus Types People around the world commonly get infected with human coronaviruses 229E, NL63, OC43, and HKU1. I will wager that list going forward will now include SARS-Cov-2 and 10 to 15% of the world's population will be infected by it on a semi-yearly basis and will not be able to tell the difference between it and Influenza. In a year or two as much as it frustrates me we will be back to people going to school and work sick and sharing their cold.

He's describing exactly what he said. Herd Immunity. You must have missed it.

 

[Aramsolari]

Another thing I wanted to add from my conversation with my uncle is that he said only something like 25% of the frontline workers in Miami are vaccinated, and the other 75%, mainly nurses / hospital staff, are not wanting to get the vaccine. I think he said only 50% of his department is vaccinated. I tried to find some sources on this but I only found one from January stating it was 50%. The story is still the same either way.




One from march from WaPo showing its a nationwide thing.






Here are some headlines out of the Tampa Bay area. Hospitals are suspending elective surgeries and visitations again.











It says "some" electives, but on the TV broadcast it said they were stopping all electives.

I wonder what can be done to educate and encourage people to take the shot. You obviously can't force people and well...mandates are counterproductive. More lotteries? Monetary incentives? Partner up with Ford and give out new F-150s as prizes or something? Personally I'm a cheap date. I'll get the shot if you give me a free Butterball turkey or something lol.

 

[Vavrik]

Is anyone familiar with the basis of this anti-vax argument? This is the first I've heard of them getting violent and I'm curious.

Just that Poland has been experiencing some problems from right wing anti-vaccination activists. I found more information from Bloomberg than from a team I work with in Poland, they didn't know anything this morning.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

I ask because I am vaguely familiar with a conspiracy theory that Bill Gates is involved in population control in the guise of vaccination, and that theory is the only one I know of that would result in violence. I wasn't aware significant numbers of people took it seriously, but if something is urging people to violence, that may be it.

Anti-science is very concerning to me. It's a natural growth of post-modernism, and one to keep an eye on. It's not just science at stake. It's all enlightenment use of reason, hence why post-modernists claim math is a tool of white oppression. That's a Left, not a Right meme.

Likewise, reports that Poles are shouting "Jews are behind the pandemic" is a Left meme, not a Right meme. Shades of Nazis Progressivism. We haven't seen this since the 1930s.

 

[Bambooza]

I wonder what can be done to educate and encourage people to take the shot. You obviously can't force people and well...mandates are counterproductive. More lotteries? Monetary incentives? Partner up with Ford and give out new F-150s as prizes or something? Personally I'm a cheap date. I'll get the shot if you give me a free Butterball turkey or something lol.

Ignore it at this point would be the best course of action. People know it's mostly safe and effective at reducing the symptoms of covid19 and that in of itself is enticing enough. The issue is it's politicized to the point where it's now wrapped up in a tribal identity and so it's no longer about its safety and effectiveness but about being a sneetch with or without a star. And honestly, in the grand scheme of things, it really doesn't matter if people are getting vaccinated or not just like it didn't matter if people got the flu shot every year or not. So no it's not about setting up lottos or rewards or other means of enticement it's all about control. It's why there is a push for immunization passports which were never even talked about being required for far more deadly viruses that had a far more effective vaccine than covid19. After all, we have to look no further than Measles and the outbreaks the USA was seeing due to pockets of people who were refusing to be vaccinated or worse not vaccinating their children.

So no people for the most part are educated and honestly, the best course would be simple to remove it from political talking points from the media and references to political ideology, but truefully do we see that happening?

 

[Aramsolari]

So no people for the most part are educated and honestly, the best course would be simple to remove it from political talking points from the media and references to political ideology, but truefully do we see that happening?

That's a rhetorical question right? Haha.

Yeah I dunno. I can safely say we all agree here and think this is problem. Having said that, what's the solution?

 

[Vavrik]

That's a rhetorical question right? Haha.

Yeah I dunno. I can safely say we all agree here and think this is problem. Having said that, what's the solution?

There isn't one really... least you (meaning society) can't really force the issue. So ignore it as he suggested.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

The solution is always honesty. Unless someone has a belief in objective truth as a thing to be sought and obtained, there is only warring narratives. That is the essence of post-modernism, CRT, and Marxism. If you are in that bucket, there is no solution. There are consequences to turning your back on truth, just as there are consequences to lying.

Typically, the rise of anti-truth results in hundreds of millions of people dying in a war. To the best of my knowledge that has always been the only result. Blame Hegel's metaphysics if you like. 55 million killed in WWII. 70 million murdered by their own government in Stalinist Russia. 120 million murdered in Mao's China. The results appear ALWAYS the same.

 

[Jolly_Green_Giant]

I wonder what can be done to educate and encourage people to take the shot. You obviously can't force people and well...mandates are counterproductive. More lotteries? Monetary incentives? Partner up with Ford and give out new F-150s as prizes or something? Personally I'm a cheap date. I'll get the shot if you give me a free Butterball turkey or something lol.

Think about it. If you haven't gotten the vaccine by now, your mind is probably made up. Some may just be waiting to get it later to see if there are any side effects were not seeing now, some may be waiting for it to get proper FDA approval or something of the sort. I know more than one person who's concerned about side effects like cancer 5+ years down the line. Some may get it when they have someone they know die, some may get it when it becomes a hindrance to be unvaccinated. People stand strong in their convictions so I don't expect the vaccination rates to change much. People might think vaccine hesitancy is a problem of partisan politics, but from my experience the political divide is detached from those who won't get vaccinated.

The idea of the vaccine is scary to some people. This whole pandemic is traumatizing and some people have just checked out of it and want nothing to do with it anymore. COVID is a scary nebulous concept that the news reminds you is a threat to your life and they do it quite frequently. I guarantee you that you could hand F-150's to people and they still wouldn't get the shot for many reasons. "Is dying in 10 years from cancer worth an F-150?" they might ask themselves. I cant think of too many things that would change someones mind at this point. Ramp up the fear factor on the news a few notches and it might do it.

 

[Aramsolari]

Think about it. If you haven't gotten the vaccine by now, your mind is probably made up. Some may just be waiting to get it later to see if there are any side effects were not seeing now, some may be waiting for it to get proper FDA approval or something of the sort. I know more than one person who's concerned about side effects like cancer 5+ years down the line. Some may get it when they have someone they know die, some may get it when it becomes a hindrance to be unvaccinated. People stand strong in their convictions so I don't expect the vaccination rates to change much. People might think vaccine hesitancy is a problem of partisan politics, but from my experience the political divide is detached from those who won't get vaccinated.

The idea of the vaccine is scary to some people. This whole pandemic is traumatizing and some people have just checked out of it and want nothing to do with it anymore. COVID is a scary nebulous concept that the news reminds you is a threat to your life and they do it quite frequently. I guarantee you that you could hand F-150's to people and they still wouldn't get the shot for many reasons. "Is dying in 10 years from cancer worth an F-150?" they might ask themselves. I cant think of too many things that would change someones mind at this point. Ramp up the fear factor on the news a few notches and it might do it.

Yeah my partner just got off the phone with her mom. They had a huge fight where her mom ended up hanging up on her. She's adamant she's not getting the vaccine no matter what after months of leading us on that she....maybe...might...etc. She always had one excuse or another not to get it. Now after a visit to her doctor (who recommended her to get it), she's decided she's not getting it and it's final.

She's also anti-mask. I dunno what to say to be honest. She's to be my mother-in-law in the future but on this matter, I wash my hands off this.

 

[Montoya]

Likewise, reports that Poles are shouting "Jews are behind the pandemic" is a Left meme, not a Right meme. Shades of Nazis Progressivism. We haven't seen this since the 1930s.

I suggest you tread carefully. The tattoo on my grandmothers arm was not put there by some lefty socialist.

 

[Vavrik]

Think about it. If you haven't gotten the vaccine by now, your mind is probably made up. Some may just be waiting to get it later to see if there are any side effects were not seeing now, some may be waiting for it to get proper FDA approval or something of the sort. I know more than one person who's concerned about side effects like cancer 5+ years down the line. Some may get it when they have someone they know die, some may get it when it becomes a hindrance to be unvaccinated. People stand strong in their convictions so I don't expect the vaccination rates to change much. People might think vaccine hesitancy is a problem of partisan politics, but from my experience the political divide is detached from those who won't get vaccinated.

The idea of the vaccine is scary to some people. This whole pandemic is traumatizing and some people have just checked out of it and want nothing to do with it anymore. COVID is a scary nebulous concept that the news reminds you is a threat to your life and they do it quite frequently. I guarantee you that you could hand F-150's to people and they still wouldn't get the shot for many reasons. "Is dying in 10 years from cancer worth an F-150?" they might ask themselves. I cant think of too many things that would change someones mind at this point. Ramp up the fear factor on the news a few notches and it might do it.

For what it's worth...

Opinion | The FDA Finally Gets Moving on Pfizer

The agency will now ‘sprint’ to grant full vaccine approval.

www.wsj.com

Not sure if I'm happy about cutting the timeline, the loss of oversight over the pharma industry could have ramifications. That said, these are professionals and they know their stuff. And it might remove one reason for not getting a vaccine for some people.

 

[Aramsolari]

Informative article about anti-Vaccination sentiments in Poland. I didn't realize it but I guess Poland's an Anti-Vaxxar hotspot.

Anti-vaccine sentiment rife in Poland – DW – 12/31/2020

Many people in Poland are skeptical of coronavirus vaccinations. A growing number of celebrities and politicians are expressing reservations, too.

www.dw.com

Also...this photo popped up on my Facebook feed. The language in the photo is Polish and for some wacky reason, there's a lot of that nonsense coming out of there now. Anyway, I promptly informed the person who posted it that this was a poor photoshop attempt. She was embarrassed and promptly made an excuse that "She was testing to see if anybody else 'spotted' it". Yeah sure....she's a pharmacist too, mind you.

 

[Montoya]

I warned you @Shadow Reaper , next one is a ban.