I'm holding out as well. I mean I really want this to be good but so far disney continues to have shit writers and I fear this too will befall that fate.
The Return to the Good Star Wars
- Thread starter Shadow Reaper
- Start date
Well, it’s hard to say where is bad writing and where is an unfortunate general concept. For instance, I get Richard’s complaint about the pacing in Fett, but it’s important to note the writers were specifically tasked to evoke an American Western air, as did Firefly. That requires a slower pace. I also get people are starting to complain about the sheer number of cameos, but again; they’re trying to weave this multi-short series tapestry together in a way that has never been done, with the specific intention that the greater a fan’s involvement, the greater the reward. That’s a pretty lofty goal and I can’t disagree with it.
I like both Filoni and Favereau’s writing. If KK really does get removed we should be back to great Star Wars. If Disney decides to go the Acolyte route despite all the warnings they have had, then the worst is yet to come. I don’t know any fans sympathetic with pretending the Sith are the good guys and the Jedi are the bad guys.
This below is straight Looper—generally objective and a Little brown nosing, but great reporting.
View: https://youtu.be/_xyZqtHcTsw
I like both Filoni and Favereau’s writing. If KK really does get removed we should be back to great Star Wars. If Disney decides to go the Acolyte route despite all the warnings they have had, then the worst is yet to come. I don’t know any fans sympathetic with pretending the Sith are the good guys and the Jedi are the bad guys.
This below is straight Looper—generally objective and a Little brown nosing, but great reporting.
Here is a great scene that is presented in “Western” style. Note the pace is slow. You’re expected to wade in anticipation as you listen to the wind. It’s Mano a Mano, but surprisingly between two women. I’ve got no problem with this since it doesn’t stoop to the silly stupid stuff as per Galadriel.
I would have liked a little more Chinese influence, meaning dancing around and showing off some athletics, but this is Japanese. It idealizes simplicity. It’s a Western, with one gun slinger at each end of the bridge.
While I totally get why someone might complain it’s too slow paced or nor athletic enough, it’s because of the kind of fight that it is that less is more. I like it. It’s great writing.
View: https://youtu.be/OAAkTDr2wmk
I would have liked a little more Chinese influence, meaning dancing around and showing off some athletics, but this is Japanese. It idealizes simplicity. It’s a Western, with one gun slinger at each end of the bridge.
While I totally get why someone might complain it’s too slow paced or nor athletic enough, it’s because of the kind of fight that it is that less is more. I like it. It’s great writing.
That fight scene was perfectly fine for a TV show. Action wasnt really the issue with these shows (except where it got really dumb like in Mando s3 and bobba and Obi.. Damn) it's everything in between. I've barely seen anything of her before Mando, and her introduction gave me the vibes of a villain, even if her tough and gruff attitude was justified or fits her previous personality.
It's been the trend at Disney to turn heroes into villains or just introduce straight up horrible people and then try to feed them to us as "the good guy" we should praise. You have been pointing this out every time. I don't expect any better from Asoka.
Richard Bong
Space Marshal
Bad writing example. The Mandalorian
In season 1:
And that's just one example.
In season 1:
- Mando doesn't trust droids.
- Then, for no apparent reason, Mando gets over his distrust of droids.
- For no apparent reason, Mando is back to his distrust of droids, except for one droid which self-destructed in a lava river.
- Then he goes on a side quest to get a part for this droid he trusts which would change its personality, so wouldn't be the same droid and therefore untrustworthy.
- Then he trusts a droid that barely functions.
- Then when this new droid goes missing, it turns out he doesn't need a droid at all because he can seal his helmet.
And that's just one example.
Yeah. I’m not a fan of that either. Back in the day, this was the stereotypical example of “melodrama”, and hence a thing to be avoided at all costs. Somewhere back in the 80’s though, UCLA film school started selling the idea under the rebranding of “subverting expectations” sans instructions of how to do this without defrauding your audience. Hence even very good writers of that era like Joss Whedon stooped to cheesy, melodramatic role reversals in basically every series he wrote.
I like Whedon’s writing even though he is obviously a disgusting douchbag. His handle on adolescent dialog is really unparalleled. Watch Buffy and co. But he routinely writes these reversals and you find it everywhere. Obviously this is what KK is after with switching the Sith and Jedi.
Absolutely, a better grounding in literary criticism would help these UCLA clones out. I’m not denying. I’m just noting this problem is everywhere across the industry, and the failure is in film school with them failing to teach the proper difference between drama and melodrama.
So guilty as charged but so is the whole industry. I think we’re just left letting that one go.
Will they make Ahsoka into a villain? I certainly hope not. I have to say, she is what has become the very rarest kind of hero. She’s a Paladin. She’s the White Knight. She’s the one who through suffering rose above her contemporaries and teachers and walked away from them.
This is the rarest kind of hero these days. She’s a Paragon of the Light Side, same as depicted in the Fantasy Flight Games RPG “Force and Destiny” as a “Paragon”, or one unusually adjusted to the Light side of the Force. We see this when through meditation, Ahsoka cleanses a pair of hate stained Sith light sabers and they become white. IIUC, these are the only depictions of White lightsabers in cannon.
If they don’t fuck up this character, Ahsoka is indeed the hero we need to save the franchise. Enough with the shitting on all that is cherished and rationalizing evil. KK needs to go in disgrace.
As to Richard’s examples of incongruities, yeah. These are EXACTLY the kinds of mistakes you get when forced to do an instant rewrite, removing a central character. Opportunities for this multiply greatly when you start weaving lateral threads between separate series. Even in a single story this kind of thing pops up and it’s never good, but I don’t think it’s the hallmark of good or bad writing. Simply put, good writing evokes powerful emotions in the audience based upon heroic notions of things like honor, sacrifice, courage, justice and love. Bad writing fails to pull a legitimate emotional response from the audience. (BTW, another example of melodrama is what’s called “sentimentality”, when you appeal directly to the emotions rather than through the intellect. George Lucas did this when he designed the Ewoks with greatly oversized eyes. Like babies, we judge most creatures with oversized eyes as cute, and George was deliberately strumming the heart strings of the audience with that design. Watch the baby Ewok appearance with a woman in the room and you’ll actually hear her response. That’s the power of seduction, of sentimentality, otherwise known as melodrama. That’s considered poor form in literary criticism.)
Technically, you can say Star Wars is poorly written because parsecs aren’t a measure of time, or that there isn’t enough moisture on a desert world for farming, and you’d be right. That doesn’t discount the feeling Lucas evokes in his story of metamorphosis. He shows us the boy grow up, and touches in enough ancient archetypes for the story to grant fulfillment to a huge audience.
I don’t much care that Lucas didn’t know what a parsec was until he got complaints from the audience. That’s not a necessary part of great storytelling. It’s just a mistake. No biggie.
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Just fyi, it’s the opposite. Ahsoka was introduced as an annoying adolescent. Optimistic in the extreme, many fans complained about her just as they do every less-than-adult protagonist. In Ahsoka’s case, we haven’t seen her much since her face off with Vader (you realize she was Anakin’s Padiwan?) and her loss of Ezra to Grand Admiral Thrawn. I think she’s being portrayed here as a bit dire because the writers want us to know she’s all grown up. She’s adjusted to leaving the Jedi and wants to save the friend who once saved her.
So yeah, that can be a little confusing but I think if you’re not familiar with the character, a little confusion is warranted.
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Richard Bong
Space Marshal
Lucas told good stories. Disney lost that abilty a while ago.
The Mandalorian inconsistent crap is not limited to Season 3.
Mando is a bounty hunter, so what's he doing with a single seat fighter? How do you bring back a bounty dead or alive in an N1?
The "kid" goes everywhere he goes, unless there is a chance to leave the kid with a stranger or a droid.
A Rebel Drop Trooper on the run, with a price on her head when introduced, but that price and warrant disappears when it is no longer convenient to the story.
I think we have very different ideas of what makes a great story. I just can’t see details like these ruining my experience and I have to wonder how much of the difference between the ways we judge are dependent upon other issues.
I didn’t enjoy the last movie trilogy. I originally skipped Clone Troopers because I’m not that big a fan of animation, and I originally skipped Rebels as well. A few years ago though, I was in the library looking for some DVDs to play while working and decided to try Rebels. I was shocked from the start and didn’t get any work done while they were playing.
Lots of people complain whenever Lucas makes a direct appeal for a young audience by placing kids in the stories. I’m not that way. These are kids stories and if they’re good adults will like them too.
In my opinion, Rebels takes off from the first episode, but if you want to skip the stuff written for a younger generation, you can skip the first two seasons. You’ll miss a lot of great stuff but there’s no arguing, seasons 3 and 4 are awesome storytelling for any age audience.
After Rebels I went back and watched all 10 or 11 seasons of Clone Troopers. They’re all plot driven, which isn’t my favorite. You can call them an anthology because so many characters pop in and out. Still, there are some great character arcs.
In my experience, those who claim all the Disney stuff is bad have not watched all the Disney stuff. If you haven’t seen Rebels, I do humbly suggest trying it out. If you don’t have Disney plus, stop by the local library.
George has been intimately connected on a daily basis with Jon and especially Dave who he trained. He’s happy with Filoni’s work. He works for Disney, so he’s not going to complain about KK. She’s his boss. He does however own that he especially likes some works, including Rebels, and mentions how it is about family and is character drive. That makes the difference, IMHO.
I didn’t enjoy the last movie trilogy. I originally skipped Clone Troopers because I’m not that big a fan of animation, and I originally skipped Rebels as well. A few years ago though, I was in the library looking for some DVDs to play while working and decided to try Rebels. I was shocked from the start and didn’t get any work done while they were playing.
Lots of people complain whenever Lucas makes a direct appeal for a young audience by placing kids in the stories. I’m not that way. These are kids stories and if they’re good adults will like them too.
In my opinion, Rebels takes off from the first episode, but if you want to skip the stuff written for a younger generation, you can skip the first two seasons. You’ll miss a lot of great stuff but there’s no arguing, seasons 3 and 4 are awesome storytelling for any age audience.
After Rebels I went back and watched all 10 or 11 seasons of Clone Troopers. They’re all plot driven, which isn’t my favorite. You can call them an anthology because so many characters pop in and out. Still, there are some great character arcs.
In my experience, those who claim all the Disney stuff is bad have not watched all the Disney stuff. If you haven’t seen Rebels, I do humbly suggest trying it out. If you don’t have Disney plus, stop by the local library.
George has been intimately connected on a daily basis with Jon and especially Dave who he trained. He’s happy with Filoni’s work. He works for Disney, so he’s not going to complain about KK. She’s his boss. He does however own that he especially likes some works, including Rebels, and mentions how it is about family and is character drive. That makes the difference, IMHO.
Richard Bong
Space Marshal
It's the inconsistency in the main characters' motivations.
It's the glaring plot holes.
It's the absurdity of the main focus of the story.
It is the lack of depth of characters and lack of character development.
It is the "side quests" that are "important" but abandoned almost as soon as they are started.
It's not good story telling.
It's the glaring plot holes.
It's the absurdity of the main focus of the story.
It is the lack of depth of characters and lack of character development.
It is the "side quests" that are "important" but abandoned almost as soon as they are started.
It's not good story telling.
Richard Bong
Space Marshal
I've watched two episodes of Rebels. It appeared to be written for kids, and was poor, shallow story telling. (And it wasn't season 1 but season 4 a pair of episodes connected to the Mandalorian series.)
I watched most of Clone Wars, which was before Disney, better than what Disney has done but still more aimed at kids and not great.
I've nevery heard of "Clone Troopers."
I think it might be cool to interject to point out it's totally fine for some people to like something and other people to not find enjoyment in those things as much or in the same way, and although it is nice to discuss the finer points of something, a counter opinion does not in any way invalidate the enjoyment someone may get from something.
You like it, hey you like it and that's awesome
I like the movie Howard The Duck. Not many people do apart from Mark Kermode, one of the more interesting movie critics on the circuit. I like it, he likes it, most other people don't like it. And that's fine, their dislike of Howard The Duck has no effect on my enjoyment of it in any way.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdo1VIhCP6c
You like it, hey you like it and that's awesome
I like the movie Howard The Duck. Not many people do apart from Mark Kermode, one of the more interesting movie critics on the circuit. I like it, he likes it, most other people don't like it. And that's fine, their dislike of Howard The Duck has no effect on my enjoyment of it in any way.
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Just to add some derailment nobody asked for:
Netflix is so desperate with the Witcher series, that they made the Liam Hemsworth FB account send out friend requests to ppl who had The Witcher in their "liked TV show" list. Including my wife
The relevance here (if we jump through some illogical steps) is that the Witcher show started acceptable, just like Mando, and turned into such a level of trash that the actor playing the main character has quit, just like in Mando. Even though on the title card we still have his name, he hasn't been to set in over a year as he was filming the last of us and his stunt double was doing all the s3 scenes. Also, different reasons for effectively quitting but the outcome is the same. No ones gives a shit about the show anymore because of horrible writing, and the MC being irrelevant in his own show.
With the big titles being saturated by such writers, I just can't see how this could en up as a good show. I hope I'm wrong though.
Netflix is so desperate with the Witcher series, that they made the Liam Hemsworth FB account send out friend requests to ppl who had The Witcher in their "liked TV show" list. Including my wife
The relevance here (if we jump through some illogical steps) is that the Witcher show started acceptable, just like Mando, and turned into such a level of trash that the actor playing the main character has quit, just like in Mando. Even though on the title card we still have his name, he hasn't been to set in over a year as he was filming the last of us and his stunt double was doing all the s3 scenes. Also, different reasons for effectively quitting but the outcome is the same. No ones gives a shit about the show anymore because of horrible writing, and the MC being irrelevant in his own show.
With the big titles being saturated by such writers, I just can't see how this could en up as a good show. I hope I'm wrong though.
New trailers out.
"nice haircut"
*Looks like a boy
Nope, this one's DOA as well.
BTW, even if we ignore the obvious that not a single positive male character was shown in the trailer, strictly only female, as an actual og Thrawn fan, I have a problems with this.
"Thrawn has returned as heir to the empire".
He was neve gone. He was there. He just happened to be the one left with the rank to take up the mantle. I know he was sent to the unknown regions (home basically) but he was back by death star 2. So they are not following the one and only lore.
I don't give a flying fuck about how they spun his character in the animated series. There is one Thrawn and that is by the books. If I'm not getting that, and I'm sure I won't, they have ruined their one and only chance at any sort of redemption. And I know I'm not alone in this.
"nice haircut"
*Looks like a boy
Nope, this one's DOA as well.
BTW, even if we ignore the obvious that not a single positive male character was shown in the trailer, strictly only female, as an actual og Thrawn fan, I have a problems with this.
"Thrawn has returned as heir to the empire".
He was neve gone. He was there. He just happened to be the one left with the rank to take up the mantle. I know he was sent to the unknown regions (home basically) but he was back by death star 2. So they are not following the one and only lore.
I don't give a flying fuck about how they spun his character in the animated series. There is one Thrawn and that is by the books. If I'm not getting that, and I'm sure I won't, they have ruined their one and only chance at any sort of redemption. And I know I'm not alone in this.
You're making hasty judgements because you’re not familiar with the details in the timeline as developed in Rebels.
In the last episode of Rebels, the face off is between Ezra Bridger and Thrawn, and they both disappear. Several years have passed while Ahsoka has been looking for them. That’s where the series is apparently picking up.
The missing male lead you’re looking for is Ezra Bridger. I expect we’ll meet him sometime in the first season. We should also expect to see Zeb. Kaleb sacrificed his life to save the others just a couple episodes prior, but he is somehow reincarnated as a giant wolf, so we may see him again too.
Sabine has short hair in Rebels. Starting with it long and then cutting it is likely a visual representation that she is returning to a prior state, commitment, or status, etc.
They’re all great characters. I do recommend you watch Rebels.
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I have nothing against the actor playing thrawn, he is talented, but that isn't him. We know his face. No. Thats not him. Call me whatever you want, but I won't accept that face for thrawn. There's a million talented actors waiting for their breakout role, and even if I can't come up with the name for a better fitting actor at 4am from the already established brigade after a couple glasses of Jura 10, I'm sure there a few at least. Just nope.
There is already the meme of Elon Thrawn going around and I can't unsee it.
There is already the meme of Elon Thrawn going around and I can't unsee it.
I genuinely don't care what happened in the animation.
I'd reccomed you read the books by Timothy Zahn, the creator of Thrawn. They are The one and only definitive continuation of the original trilogy and really worth your time.