3:10 is live!

BUTUZ

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I am having success in all areas in 3.10.

From taking off:
ScreenShot0022.jpg

To re spawning:
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To landing:
ScreenShot0029.jpg
 

Lorddarthvik

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Btw, when the heck do they want to release 3.10? I was expecting about, right now! Tomorrow is Friday, maybe then?
They are almost over a month late at this point, and I heard they still got tons of things bugged and crashy and broken (compared even to 3.9) and have blockers, and now they ruined my favorite cargo runs with laughably low rewards. This is getting more ridiculous with every patch...
 

NaffNaffBobFace

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...and now they ruined my favorite cargo runs with laughably low rewards. This is getting more ridiculous with every patch...
Just wait until the dynamic economy is in and supply and demand really works its magic. The only reliable trade routes will be for basic commodities like food and water to cities and towns like ArcCorp and NewBabbage.

Everything else will be a bums rush.

I use to play X2. Put hundreds of hours into it. It had a dynamic supply-and-demand economy between space stations. The best returns were on Silicon Wafers. Load up your Dolphin at a station who have overstocked and selling at 225cr and fly through systems looking at your trading console until you found a station offering you top-price 774cr. Sell and then go find a Silicon mine overstocked selling at bottom price again. With a big enough hold you can build up a decent stock of bottom price gear just waiting for that perfect buyer.

Thing that peeved me about the Dolphin was it's speed. On more than one occasion I'd be approaching a station and another ship would whizz in, sell their load and the price would crash while I was docking. What a pisser, even the auto-docking upgrade that cut out the tedious journey from the entrance to the parking bay didn't always help you beat them to market.

I solved that with the Teladi Toucan, much faster, but less than half the load capacity. And it got stuck in the Boron stations entrance/exits a couple of times exploding. Buggy piece of...

Anyway, I suppose what I'm trying to say is trading will be a crap shoot without some kind of local market price indicator on your ship unless you are dealing with the most in-demand of basics. Food to NewBabbage - you knows it makes dull, predictable sense. The black market will have to remain anonymous, though, and high risk being in the main contraband or stolen goods.
 

Lorddarthvik

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Just wait until the dynamic economy is in and supply and demand really works its magic. The only reliable trade routes will be for basic commodities like food and water to cities and towns like ArcCorp and NewBabbage.

Everything else will be a bums rush.

I use to play X2. Put hundreds of hours into it. It had a dynamic supply-and-demand economy between space stations. The best returns were on Silicon Wafers. Load up your Dolphin at a station who have overstocked and selling at 225cr and fly through systems looking at your trading console until you found a station offering you top-price 774cr. Sell and then go find a Silicon mine overstocked selling at bottom price again. With a big enough hold you can build up a decent stock of bottom price gear just waiting for that perfect buyer.

Thing that peeved me about the Dolphin was it's speed. On more than one occasion I'd be approaching a station and another ship would whizz in, sell their load and the price would crash while I was docking. What a pisser, even the auto-docking upgrade that cut out the tedious journey from the entrance to the parking bay didn't always help you beat them to market.

I solved that with the Teladi Toucan, much faster, but less than half the load capacity. And it got stuck in the Boron stations entrance/exits a couple of times exploding. Buggy piece of...

Anyway, I suppose what I'm trying to say is trading will be a crap shoot without some kind of local market price indicator on your ship unless you are dealing with the most in-demand of basics. Food to NewBabbage - you knows it makes dull, predictable sense. The black market will have to remain anonymous, though, and high risk being in the main contraband or stolen goods.
I'm talking about the fixed price box run missions. They added a multistage 3-4 box delivery mission, where you pick em up at one spot and deliver them not far from each other.
Like we used to do it, just manually by taking multiple missions.
Yeah but those missions payed 8k auec each! Now for the same time investment, you get 4K auec for the lot! I've heard ppl saying the reward is so low because it's local to the part of the system you are in (like moons of Crusader zone, pick up 3 packs at PO, deliver 2 to Daymar, 1 to Cellin) instead of taking them across the system (like Arc Corp to New Bab).
This, I gotta say is the supidest argument they could come up with. Delivering to 3 locations, no matter how near each other, will take aup 90-95% of the time spent on the trip. Whether you have to cross the system makes near ZERO impact on effort and Time spent. Doing the current in-local-area deliveries takes like what, 40-45 minutes? Doing the AC to NB Towers run from 3 moon locations around AC takes 50-55 minutes. The income difference is 4K vs 24K auec. I'd rather spend the 10 extra minutes traveling across the system and get the 20K extra, thankyouverymuch!

You are right about actual trading ofc, but I think they will at least try to implement a system that balances the cases you described better.
I played a lot of X1 and X3, I missed out on most of X2 apart from a few hours of story missions I think. I remember in X3 buying that long type of cargo ship and hauling something related to power stations, I made good money but the AI caught up to it and crashed my trade route by filling the station with the same type of goods I was hauling, and the whole economy of that system ground to a halt for days until the station started using up some of the stock lol
God the flight/combat was awful, joystick-Hotas support was non-existent in a time when those were still the norm. I couldn't get immersed with the mouse controls X1, which were actually worse then even in old TIE-Fighter lol. X3 was the first that was mostly flyable with the joystick, but had the worst kind of jousty combat, I could never complete even the first story mission. But everything else was really cool!

I was looking at X4.x, the latest release, that supposedly allows you to walk around stations. I just don't have the time to justify spending that much on it atm.
 

Phil

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Just wait until the dynamic economy is in and supply and demand really works its magic. The only reliable trade routes will be for basic commodities like food and water to cities and towns like ArcCorp and NewBabbage.

Everything else will be a bums rush.

I use to play X2. Put hundreds of hours into it. It had a dynamic supply-and-demand economy between space stations. The best returns were on Silicon Wafers. Load up your Dolphin at a station who have overstocked and selling at 225cr and fly through systems looking at your trading console until you found a station offering you top-price 774cr. Sell and then go find a Silicon mine overstocked selling at bottom price again. With a big enough hold you can build up a decent stock of bottom price gear just waiting for that perfect buyer.

Thing that peeved me about the Dolphin was it's speed. On more than one occasion I'd be approaching a station and another ship would whizz in, sell their load and the price would crash while I was docking. What a pisser, even the auto-docking upgrade that cut out the tedious journey from the entrance to the parking bay didn't always help you beat them to market.

I solved that with the Teladi Toucan, much faster, but less than half the load capacity. And it got stuck in the Boron stations entrance/exits a couple of times exploding. Buggy piece of...

Anyway, I suppose what I'm trying to say is trading will be a crap shoot without some kind of local market price indicator on your ship unless you are dealing with the most in-demand of basics. Food to NewBabbage - you knows it makes dull, predictable sense. The black market will have to remain anonymous, though, and high risk being in the main contraband or stolen goods.
I think this is why they wanted 1000 systems or 100 whatever it was originally lol, the economy with a 100 systems would be infinite really, if were left with 1 system its going to be hard but then again we don't even know how many players per server are going to be in the game, 100? 1000? I mean there are so many unknown factors still. We still don't know how well server meshing is going to work, this is why I keep getting a sinking feeling with this game, the scale of what they were trying to do is so huge I keep wondering if its even possible or are we going to get left with some dumbed down version until the tech is sustainable like 10 years from now.
 

Lorddarthvik

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I think this is why they wanted 1000 systems or 100 whatever it was originally lol, the economy with a 100 systems would be infinite really, if were left with 1 system its going to be hard but then again we don't even know how many players per server are going to be in the game, 100? 1000? I mean there are so many unknown factors still. We still don't know how well server meshing is going to work, this is why I keep getting a sinking feeling with this game, the scale of what they were trying to do is so huge I keep wondering if its even possible or are we going to get left with some dumbed down version until the tech is sustainable like 10 years from now.
Server meshing tech is nothing new, they "just" need to implement it for SC. Full meshing with i-cache is a huge beast I guess, but getting the economy to sync across servers shouldn't be an issue. I believe they already talked about this happening to some degree? Also it was said that some percentage of the economy will be handled by them/faked so we can't crash it.
The X series had tons of star systems and supposedly smart Ai doing trading to keep things running, yet the economy of the whole universe died after a short while. I hope they learned from this at Cig and will do better.
 

Phil

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Server meshing tech is nothing new, they "just" need to implement it for SC. Full meshing with i-cache is a huge beast I guess, but getting the economy to sync across servers shouldn't be an issue. I believe they already talked about this happening to some degree? Also it was said that some percentage of the economy will be handled by them/faked so we can't crash it.
The X series had tons of star systems and supposedly smart Ai doing trading to keep things running, yet the economy of the whole universe died after a short while. I hope they learned from this at Cig and will do better.
Yes they did talk about it but people seem to think server meshing wont have limits, they said even with server meshing there would be a limit to how many players could take up a certain area, so that means 1000 people wont be able to be 1 space station for example, at the same time, the limits might be what they are now for all we know, maybe 100 people max in a specific area, we don't know, all we know is server meshing allows servers to be meshed but what are the numbers going to be? How many players can take up an area and what size is that area?
 

Bambooza

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Yes they did talk about it but people seem to think server meshing wont have limits, they said even with server meshing there would be a limit to how many players could take up a certain area, so that means 1000 people wont be able to be 1 space station for example, at the same time, the limits might be what they are now for all we know, maybe 100 people max in a specific area, we don't know, all we know is server meshing allows servers to be meshed but what are the numbers going to be? How many players can take up an area and what size is that area?
You are right to a degree. There will be a finite number of players in the same location at the same time say a space station. Once that number has been reached then what ends up happening is a new instance of that space station should be brought online thus you wouldn't be denied the ability to go to the station you'll just not necessarily see all of the players at the station just those players within your instance at the station.

Server meshing tech is nothing new, they "just" need to implement it for SC. Full meshing with i-cache is a huge beast I guess, but getting the economy to sync across servers shouldn't be an issue. I believe they already talked about this happening to some degree? Also it was said that some percentage of the economy will be handled by them/faked so we can't crash it.
The X series had tons of star systems and supposedly smart Ai doing trading to keep things running, yet the economy of the whole universe died after a short while. I hope they learned from this at Cig and will do better.
They have and it started here https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/13128-the-star-citizen-economy and has grown to a far more detailed implementation as shared at CitizenCon2949
View: https://youtu.be/_8VFw1F-olQ


So far what Tony and Jake have created looks to be a system that will be very immersive and dynamic, which should hopefully not lead to as many issues with previous games where the economy was driven by random factors outside of player involvement. They have also talked about physicalizing these NPC merchants so if a player is near them instead of just being a subprogram ran in the background the server will spin up NPC and ships for them in localized space if a PC is near.
 

Phil

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You are right to a degree. There will be a finite number of players in the same location at the same time say a space station. Once that number has been reached then what ends up happening is a new instance of that space station should be brought online thus you wouldn't be denied the ability to go to the station you'll just not necessarily see all of the players at the station just those players within your instance at the station.



They have and it started here https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/13128-the-star-citizen-economy and has grown to a far more detailed implementation as shared at CitizenCon2949
View: https://youtu.be/_8VFw1F-olQ


So far what Tony and Jake have created looks to be a system that will be very immersive and dynamic, which should hopefully not lead to as many issues with previous games where the economy was driven by random factors outside of player involvement. They have also talked about physicalizing these NPC merchants so if a player is near them instead of just being a subprogram ran in the background the server will spin up NPC and ships for them in localized space if a PC is near.
Right but how does that work for trading? For jobs? Missions? If to many people take up one space and another server is created how does the A.I. driven part of it work? How does it take into account that the 50 other people on the other server have taken all the trading goods etc... I guess its not the amount of people that worries me, its how do you maintain a consistent A.I. driven economy when you have to create alternate servers for players?
 
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Lorddarthvik

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Right but how does that work for trading? For jobs? Missions? If to many people take up one space and another server is created how does the A.I. driven part of it work? How does it take into account that the 50 other people on the other server have taken all the trading goods etc... I guess its not the amount of people that worries me, its how do you maintain a consistent A.I. driven economy when you have to create alternate servers for players?
All servers can grab the economy data from a shared server though, which can then drive the Ai behavior.

I think you might misunderstood how server meshing works at the base level? There are no fixed fully separate servers with separate missions and economy. Everything is dynamic and servers to spin up and shut down for small regions of space wherever it's needed, and players will be constantly bumped back and forth between servers as they move around in space, accept missions and so on. Still, the number of missions generated and economy should be shared among all the instances, as in one big universe like EvE, at least I think that's the goal. The place will be supposedly so big that it shouldn't be an issue to find missions, and I bet they will generate more depending on player density up to a point that is "okay" foe the systems economy.

To whom the Ai transport ship that @Bambooza mentioned will spawn will be determined by the servers own "Ai", depending on proximity, play style history, faction standings, missions accepted, and whatever. For some it will be there, for others on another instance, it will be empty space if the instance containing the transport ship can't support all players in it's region.

Well, at least that's what I got from all the times they talked about it, maybe it's gonna be totally different lol
 

Phil

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All servers can grab the economy data from a shared server though, which can then drive the Ai behavior.

I think you might misunderstood how server meshing works at the base level? There are no fixed fully separate servers with separate missions and economy. Everything is dynamic and servers to spin up and shut down for small regions of space wherever it's needed, and players will be constantly bumped back and forth between servers as they move around in space, accept missions and so on. Still, the number of missions generated and economy should be shared among all the instances, as in one big universe like EvE, at least I think that's the goal. The place will be supposedly so big that it shouldn't be an issue to find missions, and I bet they will generate more depending on player density up to a point that is "okay" foe the systems economy.

To whom the Ai transport ship that @Bambooza mentioned will spawn will be determined by the servers own "Ai", depending on proximity, play style history, faction standings, missions accepted, and whatever. For some it will be there, for others on another instance, it will be empty space if the instance containing the transport ship can't support all players in it's region.

Well, at least that's what I got from all the times they talked about it, maybe it's gonna be totally different lol
Ya I am just curious how its all going to mesh personally, it all sounds good but can it work lol.
 
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Bambooza

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Ya I am just curious how its all going to mesh personally, it all sounds good but can it work lol.

Its all handled on the back end by transactional databases that store the game world. While there are ways to update server clusters through caching and broadcast messages it's still typically stored in a database that typically becomes the authoritative state of the world.
 

Richard Bong

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All servers can grab the economy data from a shared server though, which can then drive the Ai behavior.

I think you might misunderstood how server meshing works at the base level? There are no fixed fully separate servers with separate missions and economy. Everything is dynamic and servers to spin up and shut down for small regions of space wherever it's needed, and players will be constantly bumped back and forth between servers as they move around in space, accept missions and so on. Still, the number of missions generated and economy should be shared among all the instances, as in one big universe like EvE, at least I think that's the goal. The place will be supposedly so big that it shouldn't be an issue to find missions, and I bet they will generate more depending on player density up to a point that is "okay" foe the systems economy.

To whom the Ai transport ship that @Bambooza mentioned will spawn will be determined by the servers own "Ai", depending on proximity, play style history, faction standings, missions accepted, and whatever. For some it will be there, for others on another instance, it will be empty space if the instance containing the transport ship can't support all players in it's region.

Well, at least that's what I got from all the times they talked about it, maybe it's gonna be totally different lol
The evidence, so far, is they can't even get all the servers on the same build, much less get them stable.
 
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