3:10 is live!

Shadow Reaper

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It's not punishment if every solo player has the same debuf. It's an advantage/reward for cooperative play. (Besides, no one has yet checked to see how quickly they can tag with voice command. You may actually find that with some effort, some solo pilots obtain a large advantage through this same mechanism, over pilots who don't adequately explore their options.

I think you're too narrowly focused on comparing what was with what is, and not looking at the big picture. It would indeed be boring to stand on the bridge of a C&C ship with nothing to do, but this puts situational awareness in the hands of cooperative players. Especially brilliant players who lack the twitchy skills of a top pilot, will now have opportunities to shine on the bridge of a big cap ship. That is creating new play loops that to the best of my knowledge, have never existed, and is another example of why I find SC so compelling. This is cutting edge! I doubt even USAF drone pilots have this much situational awareness. With a RIO on the bridge of a Bengal, and a single pilot in the cockpit, you can have all the benefits of a two seater like the Tomcat, and none of the downside.

Look at the bridge of the Idris. What are all those people supposed to do? CIG obviously has plans for them. I'm encouraged.

BTW, this points up a huge deficit of the civilian carrier, the Kraken; as compared to military carriers. This is important stuff for Kraken enthusiasts, that should give them pause to enter big battles. Even just three fighters off an Idris could reasonably hope to contend with the eight from a Kraken given they all know where they need to be moment by moment. This is the battle against the fog of war. And. . .if you have a Kraken with more than twice the fighter capability as the Idris, you now obtain incredible advantage by teaming with an Idris. This is stuff TEST can excel at, and use to dominate.
 
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Deroth

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CIG also has an history of changing or removing unpopular mechanics, two recent examples:
  • Hover mode (good concept, horrid implementation)
  • Singes (nerfed them to hell, removed all but S2s, and are still broken in gimble mode, due to players complaining about hitscan and them doing too much damage)
 

Radegast74

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In the Spectrum feedback page, the majority of the feedback is negative but there are those that defend it as well.
OMG, do NOT use "feedback on Spectrum" as a gauge for anything...most of the "Spectrum Warriors" are just plain idiots.

TL;DR --> I agree with Michael, I really like it. Targeting takes a bit of getting used to and some key/joystick rebinding, but overall, it is great and it appears that targeting/gunnery officer will be a viable role on a multi-crew ship. In fact, i think mechanics like this and the turrets show how CIG is working to make bigger multi-crew ships more powerful than an equal number of people in single-seat craft. Turrets are going to be relatively OP, but that could really enhance gameplay.

Other things, like atmospheric flight, targeting, ESP, gimbal assist are all excellent. Like any PTU, you have the usual amount of weird behavior (desynch?) but I think most people will like it, once they get over the changes in targeting.

My consensus is i like it.

Flight model needs some tweaking, but overall positive (Ship flight feels a lot more like the ship "looks.")
Athmosspheric flight needs control surfaces (soon™)

Targeting mechanic is confusing, once you're setup you can get used to it. I see potential for future improvements. (Radar operator mode soon™?)
But it is still, at its current state, worse than it was before.

Several pips, targeting etc. are too small/thin/wrong color/hard to see. Nothing which can't be improved.

I like the "new" gimbal assist
I like the new ESP (maybe OP?)

Turret Overhaul haven't tested yet. If its like ESP probably very good.

Trading app is simple and good. Transaction history confirmed soon™

High speed combat changes. Time will show.
 

Shadow Reaper

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CIG also has an history of changing or removing unpopular mechanics, two recent examples:
  • Hover mode (good concept, horrid implementation)
  • Singes (nerfed them to hell, removed all but S2s, and are still broken in gimble mode, due to players complaining about hitscan and them doing too much damage)
Yes, CIG has a long history of responding to the base. However, they know where they want to go with C&C, and the players complaining aren't thinking about this at all.

Did you mean "Sledges" rather than "Singes"? The Sledge is back in S1, S2 and S3. No reports yet what CIG is doing here, but I hope it's the way things were a year ago.
 
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Deroth

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Yes, CIG has a long history of responding to the base. However, they know where they want to go with C&C, and the players complaining aren't thinking about this at all.

Did you mean "Sledges" rather than "Singes"? The Sledge is back in S1, S2 and S3. No reports yet what CIG is doing here, but I hope it's the way things were a year ago.
Nope, Singes, as in the Banu tachyon weapons.
The Sledge is a mass driver and was never hitscan.
 
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Heartwood

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This is the feedback page for the new targeting:
look at that and think the majority of the feedback is positive [...]
I was referring to the original question to the OP's thread that is 3.10 live (and not only the new TS) in correlation to your answer. When i go to spectrum in the general section, there are more positive reactions to the new flight model being the main discussion. When we go into detail about targeting, then i would agree to it being mixed.

So we looked at different things here (feedback page vs. general)
 
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Richard Bong

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Keep in mind that after years of tweeks, pvp solo pilots are still jousting, still point and shoot, still nothing like real fighter combat. Because you don't really die when you die, people do not fly like in real combat. It is still after all the changes we've seen, extremely rare for pilots to deliberately maneuver to get behind an opponent to take them out while not being shot at themselves. This is a FAILURE of the current system, no matter how much you might like it. It is not emmersive, not challenging, and does not press pilots to excel at what they do. Anyone can see this simply by watching live video streaming or vids on youtube.

What we're seeing is supposed to change this, and if it does it will be the first time SC approximates real combat. If you like the way is was, you can find that in several other games.
There is nothing real or even realistic about Star Citizen space combat, especially not the changes in 3.10. They have actually gotten further away from realism. If they were going to add realism, I would be all for it.

For example, when it comes to realism, the Anvil ships, as a brand, would be the poorest maneuvering ships in the game and, yes, that includes the Arrow. Missiles, not guns, would be king, and the primary fighter weapon. The Retaliator the Connie and now the Vanguard, based strictly on design, thruster size, location and actual physics, would not have the flight model of a brick through a plate glass window.
C is a constant and can not be exceeded in normal space, instead of having lasers with different muzzle velocities, and having such a low velocity that some ships can even out run them.

3.10 adds tedium, not realism.
 

Richard Bong

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So....what's the general consensus so far? :o7:
I rage quit earlier after four, consecutive, failed attempts to even get off Arc Corp. The only time I managed to get into space since this dropped was I accidentally found the spline I was supposed to use when the autopilot override put me into a flat spin.
 
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Richard Bong

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Word on the street:

--Large ships handle terrible in atmo, just as should be.
How it should be in what reality?

--The Reclaimer cannot get off the ground for more than two seconds--sounds broken.

--Light fighters are flying their best since 2.6, and a real blast to fly. So maneuvering is both worse in big birds and better in small ones.
Which is also very unrealistic.
 

Richard Bong

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I didn't say you're ambiguous. I said you're equivocating by using the term "behind" in two different ways.

Look, this is a done deal. CIG did this to give us a reason to have people in the turrets, and performing C&C on cap ships. They have to do this to make cap ship combat a real thing, and the execution is excellent. They're not going to undo it because the players whined loud enough.

Soloists can still play but they have an extreme disadvantage compared to cooperative players. Until now there was never enough a reason to put someone in the turret of a Cutty or Vanguard, and now there is. Not only that, but the someone in the turret needs to be a PC.
Hovermode was a "done deal" too.

<Edit> I didn't need this crap to have me want a person in a turret, and I am being kind with crap, I just needed turrets to work. </edit>
 
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Mushin

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Few things here, turn of proximity assist in options and make sure you are getting full thrust power on the hud. If proximity assist is on, you will have issues in take off and landing for some ships. Also if you are not getting full thrust power on the hud with certain ships (600i) you'll have to go into settings and make adjustments. Either way, these should be fixed soon enough.
 

Michael

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Few things here, turn of proximity assist in options and make sure you are getting full thrust power on the hud. If proximity assist is on, you will have issues in take off and landing for some ships. Also if you are not getting full thrust power on the hud with certain ships (600i) you'll have to go into settings and make adjustments. Either way, these should be fixed soon enough.
This
And there is a bug in couple mode for analogue input (it's currently only binary)
 

Chip Hazzard

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I can't comment on the changes yet, I jumped into the PTU, but every time I tried to get out of bed I fell through the floor and died! This happened about 10 times, so going to wait for it to hit PU.

But from people's comments, and videos I have seen, I am a bit apprehensive of the new targeting method as I am mostly going to be flying solo. But like most things with Star Citizen, after a while it will become second nature using it.
 

wmk

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Word on the street:
--Large ships handle terrible in atmo, just as should be.
--The Reclaimer cannot get off the ground for more than two seconds--sounds broken.
--Light fighters are flying their best since 2.6, and a real blast to fly. So maneuvering is both worse in big birds and better in small ones.
It's just a matter of practice and appropriate game settings. I've been testing 3.10 since June 12 and believe me, in the wave 1 builds Reclaimer can lift off easily on Microtech -- the most demanding planet now -- and fly to the orbit in less than 15 minutes.

Carrack and Starfarer fly like huge whales -- as expected -- and 890 Jump flies even better than SF, which would make all 890 owners happy. But no matter of the ship, you can perform all maneuvers you want and fly where you want.

That said, few things need to be considered: proximity assist should be disabled in game settings when you're flying mainly large ships, and leaving hangars with the nose up no longer works (at last; it was one of the most unrealistic things in SC); strafe up with a little help from boost, with VTOL mode engaged in case of the ships equipped with rotating VTOL engines, like Reclaimer.

Also, all pilots who used to be turning by yawing only, need to switch to the good old banking turning: in order to turn in atmosphere you have to bank the ship up to 90 deg. (do not exceed that bank angle or the ship would start skidding and rolling beyond 90 deg. on its own), and pull the nose up; this can be supported by yawing, similarly to using rudder in real life aircraft. In some cases, i.e. when the turn radius is too large or when you simply want to make a tight turn, you can use strafe up at the high bank angle -- this would turn the ship very quickly, however at the cost of air speed - in 3.10 main engines' power decreases when maneuvering thrusters or VTOL engines are working.

Atmospheric flight is now affected by the weather even more than before. When turning into the wind direction you have to carefully observe the ship behavior and micro-adjust the controls. It is very important to prevent "skidding", which is a result of the high bank angle; in case of heavy wind the ship may go haywire even at lower degrees. In such case you have to lower the angle or even cut the throttle, while at the same time leveling the ship, or even making a full roll if it's too late -- believe or not, sometimes it is better to perform a full barrel roll and level the ship, instead of trying to save the ship by decreasing the bank angle, especially without reducing the speed.

With a little bit of training you would be able to take Reclaimer from New Babbage Spaceport, and land it at the top of the NB Tower during blizzard, or land at Teasa Spaceport with Starfarer, using the new visual landing guidance, like on the video below.


--------------
And Star Citzen looks even better than before now ; )

ScreenShot0859.jpg

More on the Community Hub:
 
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Michael

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That said, few things need to be considered: proximity assist should be disabled in game settings when you're flying mainly large ships, and leaving hangars with the nose up no longer works (at last; it was one of the most unrealistic things in SC); strafe up with a little help from boost, with VTOL mode engaged in case of the ships equipped with rotating VTOL engines, like Reclaimer.

Atmospheric flight is now affected by the weather even more than before. When turning into the wind direction you have to carefully observe the ship behavior and micro-adjust the controls. It is very important to prevent "skidding", which is a result of the high bank angle; in case of heavy wind the ship may go haywire even at lower degrees. In such case you have to lower the angle or even cut the throttle, while at the same time leveling the ship, or even making a full roll if it's too late -- believe or not, sometimes it is better to perform a full barrel roll and level the ship, instead of trying to save the ship by decreasing the bank angle, especially without reducing the speed.
decoupling also helps a lot in current build. Not sure why that is. Maybe IFCS is still in "space mode" and trys to fight athmosphere and oversteers
 

Michael

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Alright targeting changed again


After flying around a little bit its definitly an improvement

Would love the have the hold pin to set / tap to lock feature

Crosshair changed. Still little bit hard to see sometimes

Gimbal assist crosshair, is maybe a little to strong on the screen. At least for me its slightly confusing
 

BUTUZ

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Despite the instability of the patch - I actually like the combat now - I've been using fixed weapons again for the first time in ages, and enjoying having another viable loadout option.

Flight in atmosphere was interesting, difficult in some ships, good in others. I think this has promise as it's certainly better than the "all ships feel exactly the same" we had before.

Had a weird experience yesterday, popped on for half an hour and when I got to the ship pads at new babbage, was interrupted by a random player, dragging a seemingly unconscious female NPC past me, proceeded to drag her to the ship terminal. get his ship, drag her to the lift, cal the lift, and drag her into the lift and off they went! I sincerely hope he was dragging her to a cutlass red to get urgent medical attention but unfortunately he was more likely dragging her into a dirty cutlass black with stained bed sheets :/

At first glance it made me laugh but then I actually felt sorry for the NPC.

ScreenShot0015.jpg
ScreenShot0016.jpg
 

NaffNaffBobFace

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Had a weird experience yesterday, popped on for half an hour and when I got to the ship pads at new babbage, was interrupted by a random player, dragging a seemingly unconscious female NPC past me, proceeded to drag her to the ship terminal. get his ship, drag her to the lift, cal the lift, and drag her into the lift and off they went! I sincerely hope he was dragging her to a cutlass red to get urgent medical attention but unfortunately he was more likely dragging her into a dirty cutlass black with stained bed sheets :/

At first glance it made me laugh but then I actually felt sorry for the NPC.

View attachment 18200
View attachment 18201
There be some sinister dudes about in the 'Verse, yo.

As they called a ship from the terminal they will be logged in the comings and goings, rookie mistake. The Advocacy will be hot on their heels.

If their intention was to abduct someone disabling their ships transponder and parking it close to the city walls, getting them out to it and taking off would have been less visible - but then if you see a ship without a working transponder they are either in the middle of exploding or up to no good. It's another red flag.
 
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