Coronavirus COVID-19 Thread

[NaffNaffBobFace]

COVID Catharsis Corner - Reports from around the world from today Wednesday 12th of August:

- World: Study reveals in the first 3 months of this year at least 800 people died from COVID-19 misinformation and 5,800 were admitted to hospital.

- US: Florida man claiming to be an Archbishop who sold industrial bleach as miracle cure leading to seven deaths, arrested in Columbia and faces extradition.

- New Zealand: Community infection number of cases rises to 4, begins mass testing.

- UK: On the same day confirmed daily cases once again raises above 1000, official death toll falls by 5,000 as the way the total is collated is changed after review finds people who tested positive, recovered but later died were included in statistics. Total now stands at 41,329 down from 46k. The number of excess deaths, however, has not changed at 63k - over 20k above the official confirmed.

- Russia: First batch of COVID vaccine ready for rollout in as little as two weeks time.

- Europe: Multiple countries continue to see surge.

- Spain: 1,700 new cases in a day.

- Greece: Announces highest number of new cases yet at 262.

- UK: To absolutely no ones surprise UK officially enters into recession for first time since the 2008 Banking Crisis.

- US: Study by Stanford University School of Medicine finds young people who Vape 4.7 times more likely to contract COVID.

 

[Bambooza]

I wouldn't feel comfortable.

There's a reason why we have the likes of the FDA (Or Health Canada for us Canucks) to test, approve, and administer new vaccines. I strongly support the use of vaccines (I have zero patience for anti-vaxxers) but I also acknowledge that we need to be careful before we release a new one for public use. That's why I pay zero stock to certain individuals in government who promise that we'll have vaccines available by (insert date). It doesn't work that way. You really shouldn't rush vaccine development.

So you are saying you would not sign up for one of the test groups? But you are right I do like the stages of testing from animal to clinical trials with stops along the way. Of course, nothing is a guarantee and some side effects take years to manifest, or the slow process of testing means by the time you make it to market the need has already passed.

Like all things, you can make it fast and shitty or slow and irrelevant.

History is littered with medical blunders of all scales and types.

The Elixir Sulfanilamide disaster in 1937 which partly caused medical trials to be a thing in the first place.
Thalidomide birth defect crisis of the 50's and 60's which just seemed to be flat out bad luck.
Doctors being linked in to cigarettes claims that they were good for throat cancers, through the 30's into the early 60's due to clever yet baseless marketing and even lobbying of physicians.
The MMR autism scandal caused by bad science and an easily lead public in the 90's which lead to the anti-vaccination culture seen in some today.

Just a few off the top of my head. With 120 vaccines and treatments in the process of being created, there is no guarantee any of them will be 100% effective, and there is no guarantee any of them will be without side-effects, hence the trials. Although very quick, the trial duration for the majority will have been looked at and considered by the scientific community and agreed to the minimal duration being what it is, as a suitable amount of time for those 120 treatment to be tested in the human population. This is why the trials are in place and are running for a minimum duration as recommended by the world health organization. Once a treatment is found to be good (or good enough) from volunteer advanced medical trials it will also be studied by the WHO and likely by scientists and experts all over the world in peer review before being released to everyone.

We are a long way from 1937, a long way from the 50's and 60's and we are even a long way from the 90's.

Most of (if not all) of the vaccines and treatments being created are modifications of existing treatments which have already been proven to work or which were already years and years in deep development and trials stage. The promising Oxford University vaccine, for example, is a version of a MERs vaccine they had already been working on for 6 years already.

So when it is ready, I will be saying yes to a vaccine as my duty to look after not only myself but those around me.

I can only put my faith and trust in those who have been entrusted to the task of making it that they have done a thorough and proper job, and accept the amount of time and effort that has gone into developing it has been correct.

The medical lessons of history are learned and we move forward. It is a bold move by Russia to rush forward and I wish them luck, both short term and long term. we can only trust in those who are put in place to look after us. They may have developed a treatment off the back of an existing vaccine or method they already had, no one really knows, information is not forthcoming yet, and even if they have used something proven, there is no guarantee a COVID-19 version of that will be any more or less effective or come without unexpected effects - I truly hope this does not turn into another notable medical lesson but we can only wait and see... even if it does pay off (and I'm hoping it does) it will be logged in history as somewhat of a risky strategy.

Nothing is risk-free and if when I am given it they make a mistake, well that isn't my fault and they will have to then work on rectifying that mistake. My examples of blunders where people put their trust in physicians in the 30's, 50's, 60's, 90's are indeed notable, but bear in mind although those did effect hundreds of thousands, medical science has in the same time periods positively effected hundreds of millions.

Well said. I would be careful about putting lots of faith in peer review as in theory it's perfect, in practice it's just as fallible as anything and often times long term experts stagnate the process to protect their own breakthrough even if they were wrong.

As for COVID vaccination, it's going to be a question everyone should ask themselves. Which is the bigger risk? A mostly unknown vaccination while based upon years of research in flu vaccines has not truly proven to be effective against the COVID virus (even the yearly flu vaccine is only simi effective) or do nothing and take a risk of A, getting the virus and B having an adverse reaction to the virus. (the last project is still at 20 to 30% will get the virus and of that 3% will die)

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

COVID Catharsis Corner - Reports from around the world from today Thursday 13th of August:

- New Zeland: Locally transmitted cases rise to 14.

- Australia: Optimistic outlook as rate of new cases drops slightly.

- UK: Hundreds of staff test positive at posh sandwich factory.

- World Health Organisation: Says the key to beating COVID is stopping clusters from turning into community transmission and that the pandemic has a long slow burn to go if left to run rampant.

- US: Florida Sheriff of Marion County bans staff from wearing face coverings and visitors to the offices must be unmasked before entering.

- World: Confirmed death toll passes three quarters of a million.

- UK: Trials begin on new contact tracing app as previous version described as not being able to "work properly".

- France: New daily infection cases at 2,669.

- Spain: Daily cases spike to 2,935 but authorities indicate not yet a second wave.

- Iraq: Reports record daily cases of 3,841.

- Germany: Highest number of daily cases since May, at 1,445.

- Israel: Promising work continues on light-wave analysis of spit samples as a faster and cheaper way of detecting COVID infection wich each analysis costing as little as 25 cents (19 pence).

 

[Bambooza]

So the local school district released their plan for the start of the school year for those who are sending their children to school. We are still not sure what we want to do as the daughter will be entering kindergarten and given she has not been to daycare it's her first real opportunity step out into a social setting without the parents.

But it's not looking like it will be much of a school year given the rules.

Students are not permitted on the playground structures or equipment for all recesses.
Duty teachers will monitor students, remind them to wear facial coverings, and maintain social distancing.
Only one student at a time will be permitted in the bathroom.
Lunch – Students will eat lunch in the classrooms
If any student tests positive for Covid19 the whole classroom will be asked to stay home in quarantine for 14 days.

The other two options are to do home school this year or attempt to get and keep a 5-year-old engaged in zoom classes...

 

[Jolly_Green_Giant]

Whatever keeps them on a manageable and strict schedule. Education is critical and these interruptions will be horrible for their future. Homeschool seems the way to go IMO, its going to take a lot out of you, but it would be the best bet. I'm not a parent so that's where I'm coming from. School sounds like it will be miserable for them.

 

[Lorddarthvik]

So the local school district released their plan for the start of the school year for those who are sending their children to school. We are still not sure what we want to do as the daughter will be entering kindergarten and given she has not been to daycare it's her first real opportunity step out into a social setting without the parents.

But it's not looking like it will be much of a school year given the rules.

Students are not permitted on the playground structures or equipment for all recesses.
Duty teachers will monitor students, remind them to wear facial coverings, and maintain social distancing.
Only one student at a time will be permitted in the bathroom.
Lunch – Students will eat lunch in the classrooms
If any student tests positive for Covid19 the whole classroom will be asked to stay home in quarantine for 14 days.

The other two options are to do home school this year or attempt to get and keep a 5-year-old engaged in zoom classes...

Woah, that's a tough situation. My daughter is thankfully not old enough yet to have these issues, but I feel ya!

For my 2cents, I think the social setting and facing the unknown of it is also really important and has more impact to a kid's "growth" than just the strict schedule and teaching her to court to ten and whatnot. Experience matters a lot. With no way to play outside and such, it will be miserable though. I'm guessing you can't just later choose to homeschool her instead if she can't take it anymore?

After lockdown ended and we felt safe enough, we took the kid to the playground at our apartment building where she could finally meet other kids, interact with other parents and so on. It was a huge change in her, and in the right direction imo. I'd probably go with the kindergarten if possible. I've heard the stories from the other parents ( 2 sons 4,6yo with both parents working from home and homeschooling, not happy times...), for me it seemed like putting the kids back into the "standard" groove of going to school/kindergarten was much better overall, even with the restrictions. They just had to learn how to work around those restrictions.

But as I said, just my 2 coppers, I'm in a very different place and setting than you are. I'm sure we got plenty of parents in Test with more experience in these matters than me.




Btw, our little country is gaining cases, along the rest of Europe, but it's still irrelevantly low to the daily reality here. We had a vacation planned inside the country for a date soon upcoming, cos why not, we might as well try with the numbers looking okay-ish... it would be the first vacation for me in like 3 years.
I wonder if we still get to go or they will announce new lockdowns by then.


I'm wondering about the Russian vaccine as well cos as a post-soviet state, we are still on good enough terms with em that there is a very good chance we will be getting some of that. And if we are getting some of that, it might soon become mandatory like other well established vaccines.
Did they really come up with something useful (not impossible but very highly unlikely considering history ), or by "vaccine next week" they meant to say that the AK bullet factory was working overtime and they finally have enough "vaccine" shots to "distribute" to all that "need" it?

 

[Aramsolari]

So you are saying you would not sign up for one of the test groups? But you are right I do like the stages of testing from animal to clinical trials with stops along the way. Of course, nothing is a guarantee and some side effects take years to manifest, or the slow process of testing means by the time you make it to market the need has already passed.

I would not. I'm not that desperate!

 

[stockish]

US Senate now on break through Labor Day and they did not reach a decision on COVID relief. So yea, things going to get rough for some before they get better.

 

[ColdDog]

Tail of two models... Sweden vs. New Zealand - August 2020. Interesting to see... one day people will say there is NO right answer to attempting to manage a virus - like trying to herd a bunch of cats.

 

[Montoya]

We are still not sure what we want to do as the daughter will be entering kindergarten and given she has not been to daycare it's her first real opportunity step out into a social setting without the parents.

I can't imagine how tough its going to be for small kids to not play together, the teachers are going to have a tough time.

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

COVID Catharsis Corner - Reports from around the world from today Friday 14th of August:

- Canada: The city of Toronto estimates up to 550 people exposed to COVID at the Brass Rail strip-club as employee tests positive.

- UK: 1,441 new daily cases, R number apparently remains 0.8 to 1.0 with a decline of between 1% and 4% a day, although number of cases is going upwards.

- New Zealand: Number of cases grows to 29, lockdown restrictions extended for another 12 days.

- UK: Government announces anyone who returns from France after 4am tomorrow will need to quarantine for 14 days. Thousands of holiday makers cut trips short, with the rush to return described as a "scramble". France advises this measure will not be without its reciprocation's.

- France: Cases raise by 2,846.

- Norway: Issues new advice on face-masks as cases rise.

- India: Sees over 60,000 new cases a day for third day in a row.

- Hong Kong: reports 48 new cases.

- North Korea: Lifts lockdown on boarder city.

 

[Bambooza]

I can't imagine how tough its going to be for small kids to not play together, the teachers are going to have a tough time.

No clue but if they are not even allowed to play with other students in their class then its really pointless to send her to school.

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

No clue but if they are not even allowed to play with other students in their class then its really pointless to send her to school.

My wife works in a nursary/daycare, trust me when I say this even the older kids cannot grasp or follow Social Distancing 100%.

It's lucky most children don't suffer as harsh symptoms... Their transmission rate is estimated to be 50% lower too, but that's still not 0%.

 

[Montoya]

It's lucky most children don't suffer as harsh symptoms... Their transmission rate is estimated to be 50% lower too, but that's still not 0%.

In my experience with kids in kindergarten, transmission rate is 100%.

If one kid has cold, sniffles, a cough, foot and mouth disease or what ever, the ALL get it within 1 day!

Source: Me putting two kids through kindergarten over the past few years.

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

In my experience with kids in kindergarten, transmission rate is 100%.

If one kid has cold, sniffles, a cough, foot and mouth disease or what ever, the ALL get it within 1 day!

Source: Me putting two kids through kindergarten over the past few years.

You're not wrong, the human version of Foot and Mouth is "Hand, foot and mouth" and yep, it all rips through childcare settings if there was something that made them glow neon orange so they would be able to obviously tell if each other had it, they'd still all get it. The only way you'd be able to keep them a meter apart is with cages physically keeping them from each other, but then one kid learns how to fling their own poop and you're back you square one.

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

COVID Catharsis Corner - Reports from around the world from today, Saturday 15th of August:

- US: Reports indicate that takers of COVID tests are falling. Despite new daily confirmed cases and deaths remaining high, daily testing averages down 9% compared to the end of July.

- Australia: Outbreak in the area of Victoria continues with hundreds of new cases daily.

- UK: over 1000 daily cases for fifth sixth day in a row.

- France: Records another high rise of 3,310, the highest since coming out of lockdown yet.

- UK: People returning from France after the 4am deadline express disbelief and confusion at quarantine orders, as it emerges Government bought the deadline forward 24 hours from what it could have been. One man, who arrived only a few hours after the deadline says "It doesn't make sense - either it goes in for everyone immediately no matter when you get back, or you stagger the returnees to give everyone a change to get back."

- Greece: Limits public gatherings to maximum of 50 people.

- Malta: Record high daily new cases at 72.

 

[Bambooza]

In my experience with kids in kindergarten, transmission rate is 100%.

If one kid has cold, sniffles, a cough, foot and mouth disease or what ever, the ALL get it within 1 day!

Source: Me putting two kids through kindergarten over the past few years.

They don't even seem to have to be going to school to share any cold, just playdates seem to be enough. On the bright side if social distancing and masks continue to be required it has the potential to make this years cold and flu season mild.

 

[Jolly_Green_Giant]

- UK: People returning from France after the 4am deadline express disbelief and confusion at quarantine orders, as it emerges Government bought the deadline forward 24 hours from what it could have been. One man, who arrived only a few hours after the deadline says "It doesn't make sense - either it goes in for everyone immediately no matter when you get back, or you stagger the returnees to give everyone a change to get back."

What's this all about?

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

What's this all about?

A lot of countries have lists of countries that are considered more risky to travel to, so if you go there you have to quarantine for 14 days when you get back to make sure if you unknowingly picked up the contagion you don't spread it around.

France wasn't on that list so loads of people went there on holiday. Then suddenly, with 24 hours notice, it went on the list. People had minimum time to get back in the UK or they would be slapped with a quarantine order which some people who had jobs they could not do from home just could not allow to happen. People who'd just got to France for their holidays rushed back. People who'd been there for a week or more also rushed back. The cost of ferry and Euro Tunnel tickets shot up, especially as they were last moment bookings. It was estimated 500,000 UK people were in France who needed to get back. Bare in mind the emergency evacuation of Dunkirk in World War 2 bought back 338,226 people and that took 9 days. Yeah we now have Euro Tunnel and high capacity Ferries which are not being strafed by machine gun fire from the skies, but your still looking at way more needing to get back than 24 hours has the capacity to return.

Bit of a shitshow.

Then it was revealed that the government had originally intended it to be a 72 hour deadline but cut that to 24 before announcing it at retard o'clock on Thursday evening that the deadline to return without quarantine being enacted was 4am Saturday morning, giving next to no time for anyone to prepare to get back.

Now I'm not saying it wasn't the right thing to do. Confirmed daily infections in France are beginning to spike, but they are starting to spike in the UK too... However the low-to-no notice has understandably peeved a lot of innocent victims.

While I definitely I have sympathy for the travelers, I also wonder how anyone thought going on a trip aboard was a good idea in the middle of a global pandemic. The tourist industry starting up so soon always struck me as wildly optimistic and not at all sensible.

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

COVID Catharsis Corner - Reports from around the world from today Sunday 16th of August:

- World: Over 294,000 daily cases recorded around the world, the highest single day rise so far. Total confirmed cases currently stand at 21,527,747.

- Italy: Sees highest number of new daily cases since May.

- US: New COVID test has been given emergency go ahead to proceed, apparently the fifth time such a move has been taken. The new test only requires a saliva sample collected in a sterile container.

- UK: As forseen by just about anyone in the UK with a pulse, a newspaper reports government is due to announce it is to replace national health body Public Health England with another more pandemic focused group akin to Germanys Robert Koch Institute. As the move has been forseen for at least the last two months, commenters have observed that if this is a scapegoating exercise, it's a pretty poor one.

- Spain: Country to introduce a blanket closing time of 1am for bars as cases continue to climb.

- Italy: to close all Discos and Clubs again as cases rise. More face covering rules to be introduced.

- UK: Reports float around that 30 minute COVID test revealed recently to come into service very soon, has not as yet been passed by regulatory body.

- UAE/Israel: The two countries have agreed to normalize relations and multiple businesses have now agreed to join forces in working together between the two countries on research to battle COVID-19.

- UK: Due to absence of final exams due to COVID-19 closures, school exam grades now mired in chaos as the prediction system and its algorithm that was rushed in to place to estimate and allocate kids defacto grades, which were based partly on their Mock exam results, partly their teachers estimates and partly their schools history of performance, fudges the results to favor private schools with top grades and mark down kids in poorer areas and schools even when their work and results up to this point had been stellar. Kids pissed off, teachers pissed off, parents pissed off, exam boards pissed off, everyone is pissed off. Hundreds of students protest outside the Department of Education in London.