Coronavirus COVID-19 Thread

Jolly_Green_Giant

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When people were dying before the vaccine came out, I felt terrible for them and their families.

But now, if you live in the States and can walk into a Walgreens and get your FREE shot, but you choose not too because you would rather post on facebook about 5G, microchips and owning the scared libs by coughing at them... then I will indeed laugh at your misfortune because you are an idiot.
We can all look at those who are able to get the shot but dont, medical issues exempt, and see there's a lack of logic on their part. If they're on facebook ranting like a lunatic, no one needs to tell you that theyre stupid, its just a given. I'll admit, during this whole thing I said ultimately it would be society that needs to establish these new social norms, not the government, I just don't like how far some people are taking it. The emotion I'm seeing often expressed is disgust. I understand why, but it still doesn't mean the feeling of disgust isn't dangerous, dehumanizing and ultimately in my opinion unnecessary (but not unwarranted). I can see both sides of the aisle, and have had the same feelings of disgust myself, but If i were to express those feelings what would be the point? It just evokes anger and hatred and I try to avoid that as much as possible. To sum it up, I'm just concerned about where people are placing their emotions. Maybe I'm on a sanctimonious high horse, I just feel like something isnt right.
 
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Vavrik

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Maybe I'm on a sanctimonious high horse, I just feel like something isnt right.
Just want to say here, you're not being sanctimonious, nor are you alone. Something isn't quite right. BTW. A probably obvious question popped into my head, how many Americans are vaccinated from the flu. The answer is here... and it's a little eye opening for me. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/fluvaxview/coverage-1920estimates.htm

I couldn't get the flu vaccine for 8 years because I am allergic to egg whites which was used as the vaccine substrate, but they now have options and I get it every year. Especially now because it would be just my luck to get both flu and covid at the same time.
 

Jolly_Green_Giant

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Just want to say here, you're not being sanctimonious, nor are you alone. Something isn't quite right. BTW. A probably obvious question popped into my head, how many Americans are vaccinated from the flu. The answer is here... and it's a little eye opening for me. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/fluvaxview/coverage-1920estimates.htm

I couldn't get the flu vaccine for 8 years because I am allergic to egg whites which was used as the vaccine substrate, but they now have options and I get it every year. Especially now because it would be just my luck to get both flu and covid at the same time.
I try to get mine every year. It just came up in conversation yesterday actually, next I see my doc ill ask about getting one.

Here's the most up to date Florida flu report, its awesome to see that its exponentially lower than previous years, almost non existent on the graphs.
 
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Aramsolari

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We can all look at those who are able to get the shot but dont, medical issues exempt, and see there's a lack of logic on their part. If they're on facebook ranting like a lunatic, no one needs to tell you that theyre stupid, its just a given. I'll admit, during this whole thing I said ultimately it would be society that needs to establish these new social norms, not the government, I just don't like how far some people are taking it. The emotion I'm seeing often expressed is disgust. I understand why, but it still doesn't mean the feeling of disgust isn't dangerous, dehumanizing and ultimately in my opinion unnecessary (but not unwarranted). I can see both sides of the aisle, and have had the same feelings of disgust myself, but If i were to express those feelings what would be the point? It just evokes anger and hatred and I try to avoid that as much as possible. To sum it up, I'm just concerned about where people are placing their emotions. Maybe I'm on a sanctimonious high horse, I just feel like something isnt right.
The issue is that they're no longer hanging out on the darkest fringes of social media....they've taken to the streets.

We're dealing with stuff like this.....

'Don't do this': Another vaccine passport protest planned outside Vancouver hospital on Monday
Hospital protests pushing already exhausted staff to the brink, says Vancouver doctor | CBC Radio
Fraser Health hospitals feeling pressure as COVID cases rise, elective surgeries postponed

My partner works at the COVID ward in one of the hospitals in the Fraser Health Region (In Greater Vancouver). Her and her colleagues have had to put up with anti-Vaxx patients who have taken it on themselves to not only deny the reality of their condition but to also abuse the medical staff providing them with care. Health care workers (including my partner) have been kicked at and spat at by Covid patients they're trying to help. This generally stops when their conditions worsen and they get put on the ventilator.

As the nurses and doctors are working 12 hour days trying to save these patients, they come out to idiots protesting outside. Idiots who go so far as to say that Covid patients go in with minor illnesses and are deliberately killed by nurses/doctors to 'inflate' Covid death numbers.

Currently this anti-Vaxx/mask/mandate movement is led by some of the worst nutjobs in our society. Far Right types, Conspiracy theorists, Homeopathic practitioners, Qanon loons, MAGAs, Anti-5Gs, militant Anti-Abortionists, Anti-Semites, etc, etc. In my country this movement finds a convenient home oddly enough in both our Far Right party (People's Party of Canada) and our Green Party. It's an odd hodgepodge of individuals with fringe beliefs who are now resorting to extreme tactics to get their way (Trudeau was pelted by Anti-Vaxx types at a political rally recently, nurses have been assaulted outside hospitals, ambulances were blocked from getting to the ER, etc.).

In short these individuals are intolerant, increasingly violent, and gradually forming a semblance of a political ideology that is Far Right and anti-Science.

There's something called the Paradox of Intolerance. That is to say "if a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized or destroyed by the intolerant."

Whataboutism shouldn't apply here. I really have no time for these guys and have zero desire to understand or accommodate them.

Something is definitely not alright and No...it's not the side that's trying to do the right thing.
 
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Radegast74

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We can all look at those who are able to get the shot but dont, medical issues exempt, and see there's a lack of logic on their part. If they're on facebook ranting like a lunatic, no one needs to tell you that theyre stupid, its just a given. I'll admit, during this whole thing I said ultimately it would be society that needs to establish these new social norms, not the government, I just don't like how far some people are taking it. The emotion I'm seeing often expressed is disgust. I understand why, but it still doesn't mean the feeling of disgust isn't dangerous, dehumanizing and ultimately in my opinion unnecessary (but not unwarranted). I can see both sides of the aisle, and have had the same feelings of disgust myself, but If i were to express those feelings what would be the point? It just evokes anger and hatred and I try to avoid that as much as possible. To sum it up, I'm just concerned about where people are placing their emotions. Maybe I'm on a sanctimonious high horse, I just feel like something isnt right.
What's wrong with social pressure? If somebody is being a dumbass, why not call them out? I don't get angry, I just have to let them know, and I have to categorize people, so I don't have to think everytime I encounter that person or type of person. I remember an interview with David Robinson (yeah, I'm old) where he said, "as a Christian, if I see you have a piece of snot hanging out of your nose, I'm going to tell you, 'You have a piece of snot hanging out your nose!'" The idea being that, most people with a piece of snot hanging out their nose would want to remove it/clean themselves, but hey, I recognize that in the USA you have the right to go around with a piece of snot hanging out your nose, if that is what you want...

And what is wrong with the government taking the lead on this? The government subsidizes hospitals; the costs of people (unnecessarily) using hospital beds is costing us all money...our tax money. I see this a lot like mandatory seat-belt laws, a new tech was developed that could save lives and reduce injuries, therefore reducing the dollar cost to society and goverment. Since as a society we couldn't count on people doing the right thing or using common sense, we just had to mandate it via a new law. Sad, but that's what has to get done sometimes.
 

Jolly_Green_Giant

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The issue is that they're no longer hanging out on the darkest fringes of social media....they've taken to the streets.

We're dealing with stuff like this.....

'Don't do this': Another vaccine passport protest planned outside Vancouver hospital on Monday
Hospital protests pushing already exhausted staff to the brink, says Vancouver doctor | CBC Radio
Fraser Health hospitals feeling pressure as COVID cases rise, elective surgeries postponed

My partner works at the COVID ward in one of the hospitals in the Fraser Health Region (In Greater Vancouver). Her and her colleagues have had to put up with anti-Vaxx patients who have taken it on themselves to not only deny the reality of their condition but to also abuse the medical staff providing them with care. Health care workers (including my partner) have been kicked at and spat at by Covid patients they're trying to help. This generally stops when their conditions worsen and they get put on the ventilator.

As the nurses and doctors are working 12 hour days trying to save these patients, they come out to idiots protesting outside. Idiots who go so far as to say that Covid patients go in with minor illnesses and are deliberately killed by nurses/doctors to 'inflate' Covid death numbers.

Currently this anti-Vaxx/mask/mandate movement is led by some of the worst nutjobs in our society. Far Right types, Conspiracy theorists, Homeopathic practitioners, Qanon loons, MAGAs, Anti-5Gs, militant Anti-Abortionists, Anti-Semites, etc, etc. In my country this movement finds a convenient home oddly enough in both our Far Right party (People's Party of Canada) and our Green Party. It's an odd hodgepodge of individuals with fringe beliefs who are now resorting to extreme tactics to get their way (Trudeau was pelted by Anti-Vaxx types at a political rally recently, nurses have been assaulted outside hospitals, ambulances were blocked from getting to the ER, etc.).

In short these individuals are intolerant, increasingly violent, and gradually forming a semblance of a political ideology that is Far Right and anti-Science.

There's something called the Paradox of Intolerance. That is to say "if a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized or destroyed by the intolerant."

Whataboutism shouldn't apply here. I really have no time for these guys and have zero desire to understand or accommodate them.

Something is definitely not alright and No...it's not the side that's trying to do the right thing.

You can't solve problems if you don't understand what you're dealing with. Meeting the problem head on with vitriol and vile rhetoric is only self serving and doesn't accomplish anything positive. I get how you feel man, I really do so I'm not trying to argue with you. It's clear tolerance is running thin but its also obvious it's created an us vs them mentality and I see it in peoples conversations and it really bothers me. I'm afraid there's been a general blanket opinion that everyone who aligns on the right politically all share the same thoughts on covid and the vaccine, at least on what ive seen on twitter and reddit.


I'm 100% for getting the vaccine, I think you're an idiot if you don't get it. I think the people who are in the hospital still denying they have covid are fucking idiots. People who attack nurses are fucking horrible. Where I'm personally torn that I think sets my views apart from a majority here are the "freedoms" people are so quick to shit on these days. Again, I'm torn, on one hand in the face of the virus I can see how these things can sound fucking stupid. Fuck your freedoms just get the vax and we can all go about our day. Got it. Seems reasonable, sensible, logical. I mean were dealing with death here.

Where I am torn, meaning I have yet to make up my mind on what's right and wrong with this stance, is the fundamental structure of our society and the lasting effects emergency or non emergency COVID legislation will have on the US. I feel there is this cognitive dissonance that keeps people from worrying about these things as if everything is just going to be fine and who cares the government already spies on us. You saw the emergency powers granted to the government after 9/11. You saw the rise of the surveillance state. You have different people who hold very strong convictions that transcend their need for self preservation. I want people to work towards a solution that can accommodate peoples convictions without tearing our society apart. It may not be this year, maybe not next year, but if this mindset of "Something is definitely not alright and No...it's not the side that's trying to do the right thing." continues I worry we may end up making irrational decisions.

I found this today and It kinda aligns with where I'm coming from as far as privacy and muh freedoms are concerned.

What's wrong with social pressure? If somebody is being a dumbass, why not call them out? I don't get angry, I just have to let them know, and I have to categorize people, so I don't have to think everytime I encounter that person or type of person. I remember an interview with David Robinson (yeah, I'm old) where he said, "as a Christian, if I see you have a piece of snot hanging out of your nose, I'm going to tell you, 'You have a piece of snot hanging out your nose!'" The idea being that, most people with a piece of snot hanging out their nose would want to remove it/clean themselves, but hey, I recognize that in the USA you have the right to go around with a piece of snot hanging out your nose, if that is what you want...
I was the one early on advocating for strong social pressure because these idiots do need to be called out, and I agree with you. It's how far people are letting their emotions go that really concerns me. Wishing they would die. Hoping they get Covid. Laughing at their deaths. I don't think its right and I think it's getting worse and I think those who truly believe they are doing the right thing by espousing a viewpoint that near dehumanizes people aren't very self aware.

And what is wrong with the government taking the lead on this? The government subsidizes hospitals; the costs of people (unnecessarily) using hospital beds is costing us all money...our tax money. I see this a lot like mandatory seat-belt laws, a new tech was developed that could save lives and reduce injuries, therefore reducing the dollar cost to society and goverment. Since as a society we couldn't count on people doing the right thing or using common sense, we just had to mandate it via a new law. Sad, but that's what has to get done sometimes.

I stopped caring about how much of our tax dollars are spent after we watched the government just start printing trillions of dollars last year that the normal person can't account for, but I get your point. Like I said previously, I'm torn on my position when talking about the powers of the government. You have to get vaccinated to go to public school, I mean they already have these powers to do stuff like this. Private companies such as hospitals require vaccinations for you to be hired and require them to be maintained. Its all simple and should all fall into place because these things have already been established. My issue is with peoples privacy, and the possibility that you're going to have to show your ID anywhere you go and if you can't get the vaccination you can't be employed at any large business. I have two aunts who cant get the vaccine. One is immunosuppressed and another has a history of blood clots. At no fault of their own they could be ostracized from society.

I just ask people take a more calm approach instead of letting these feelings of disgust control your speech. Don't find yourself in a circle jerk wishing people were dead.

Tolerance is only as hard as you make it.
 
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Montoya

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Nothing wrong with the article but the headline is really misleading.

Second paragraph first sentence: "Those deaths did not all happen over the past day and span back weeks."
Ah its their backdating of fatalities.. weird system.

Ok, only 250 died yesterday.. I wanna say thats better, but its not, still terrible!
 

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Vavrik

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Florida is one of the states that is only reporting every 7 days, so we won't know until I think later today or tomorrow evening.
Last week the total reported deaths averaged 335/day.
source is John Hopkins university data set. Had to divide the total weekly deaths by 7
 

Bambooza

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All too often we look at matters of opinion in terms of “right and wrong,” and you have to be really careful looking at things that way. You would, if you were paying attention, conclude that neither side was wrong. That both sides had strong arguments, and that sometimes looking at things through a different lens changes your perspective. In a political argument, if one side was conclusively right, and the other conclusively wrong, there wouldn’t be political sides, we’d have agreed on what was “correct” long ago. The fact of the matter is, this is philosophy, not mathematics. And different people think differently. @Jolly_Green_Giant is right, any time we vilify an entire tribe or political party it has never gone well, especially when you use fringe members to paint the whole team in the worse possible light.

And tolerance doesn't have to be all or nothing. You can tolerate others having a voice even if you find their words objectable and ignore what they have to say. For it is one thing to allow them to speak and ignore their words than to take away their ability to speak because you do like what they have to say. For the tools, we use now to try and safe keep the meek all too frequently become the tools used by the ruthless to suppress the majority.

The best we can do is to listen not so that we can rebuttal their talking points or entrap them in your own but to hear what they are saying so that you can understand where they are coming from. For far too often we talk past each other regurgitating our parties talking points so that we can go back to our team for hi-fives and congrats without anything changing. There is a reason that people are protesting at a hospital and it has to be a big enough reason to get them out of their daily lives to stand there. What is it they are truly afraid of? What is it that is driving them to actively speak out? Answer the questions and you will find a way to bridge the divide and often easily solve the problem in a way that works for both parties.

But it takes work and so we revert to vilifying the others simply because it's easier to think of them as the enemy than us with slightly different perspectives that might have valid points or acting out because they do not have all the facts and have based their actions upon the view they do have.

Blind Men And An Elephant Parable Point Of View Fable - Area - Directional  Church Board Members Transparent
 

Montoya

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In a political argument, if one side was conclusively right, and the other conclusively wrong, there wouldn’t be political sides, we’d have agreed on what was “correct” long ago
I disagree.

The political divide has grown to the point where one side can say something simple as "get the vaccine, it could save your life!", yet that is seen as bad information by the other side. There is no correct view from the opposing party if the narrative is "don't take the vaccine".

The fact of the matter is, this is philosophy, not mathematics. And different people think differently.
Yes, these differently thinking people are fucking stupid and can not be trusted to make the correct decision when presented with all the facts that could and does save their lives!

Their favorite social media or news channel has told them that they can't trust the government (unless their party is in power, but even then, the evil and dark deepstate is still trying to trick them), that they are special and should do their own research, which is superior to what 1000 PHD's working at the CDC can come up with.


any time we vilify an entire tribe or political party it has never gone well, especially when you use fringe members to paint the whole team in the worse possible light.
Agreed.

The best we can do is to listen not so that we can rebuttal their talking points or entrap them in your own but to hear what they are saying so that you can understand where they are coming from.
I understand that most are coming from a place of ignorance and extreme distrust of the government because the guy they voted for lost and convinced them that it was a stolen election, so how the hell can you trust anything?

For it is one thing to allow them to speak and ignore their words than to take away their ability to speak because you do like what they have to say. For the tools, we use now to try and safe keep the meek all too frequently become the tools used by the ruthless to suppress the majority.
Hogs that are posting about Fauci wanting to kill you and the one world government along with Bill Gates trying to enact population reduction with a vaccine (that is what some real nutbags are saying) is dangerous. Not to me.. to the 40% of the population that actually believes this stuff.

Should we do nothing and let them spread their lies? Or should we do the bare minimum and try limit their message so that less people hear it and end up dead?

Alex Jones does not deserve to be on any big platform for this very reason.

There is a reason that people are protesting at a hospital and it has to be a big enough reason to get them out of their daily lives to stand there
Yes, the reason is they are largely uneducated, conspiracy loving, "strong independent thinkers who did their own research".

What is it they are truly afraid of?
Bill Gates... Soros... one world order, microchips which allow the government to track you.

What is it that is driving them to actively speak out?
Frustration, anger and fear that they are the only ones that know the "real" truth and its their duty to educate the stupid sheep that COVID is hoax and not that serious.


Answer the questions and you will find a way to bridge the divide and often easily solve the problem in a way that works for both parties.
There is no way to bridge this. My sister in-law is one of the people protesting, she is too far down the rabbit hole, there is no coming back. Just fighting, arguments and links to videos on bitchute proving that she is correct and everybody else is wrong.


But it takes work and so we revert to vilifying the others simply because it's easier to think of them as the enemy than us with slightly different perspectives that might have valid points or acting out because they do not have all the facts and have based their actions upon the view they do have.
Water is wet, fire is hot and 98% of people dying right now are not vaccinated. There is no different perspective with a valid point.

I will continue vilify, insult and mock any of these moronic hogs that refuse to change their minds because any number or news source you give them that does not match their perspective is considered a fabricated lie. Even when they themselves are intubated and dying on the ICU, they still don't believe it. Just ask @Aramsolari who gets these stories directly from the nurses working there.
 
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