The last Disney Star Wars movie

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NaffNaffBobFace

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Well I've been sat here having a good long think about this and while some aspects of this topic are fit only for The Outside, I do have a question I'd appreciate a solid answer to:

Multiple times the concept of an underlying agenda has been bought up. My question is if it wasn't that perceived agenda, if it were another one or if there were no agenda at all but the stories were otherwise the same, would you think they sucked as much?

Also a sub-question:

in your opinion which franchise has had more crummy movies, Star Wars or Star Trek which is humorously singled out for having every second film land in an unfavourable way.
 
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Shadow Reaper

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Disney now rewriting the Fantastic Four in order to cast the Silver Surfer as a woman.

How many will now skip that film just for disrespecting a favored character? Why not simply invent a new, female character? Instead, this. Go figure.
 

NomadicHavoc

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I really liked the continuation of Darth Maul in The Clone Wars and Rebels. He was such a great character! Ventress was a great character too but I honestly don't remember how her story line ended in The Clone Wars? Sounds as though she's coming back in Tales of the Empire...is that correct?
 

Shadow Reaper

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I haven’t seen any of that but everything I hear is good. I read a main character descriptions page and it sounded like some of the most innovative stuff in decades. Perfect place to catch up with a reformed Witch/Sith/Assassin. IIRC, she was the only character Anakin was never able to get the best of. Didn’t they fight all through Clone Wars? Seven years. Then she reformed, helped Ahsoka, helped Obi-Wan, and disappeared for Rebels I think.

When Darth Sideous realized the Night Sisters of Dathomere represented a power equal to his own, he commanded Dooku to kill his apprentice Ventress and commanded Grievous to take an army to Dathomere and kill all the Night Sisters. Dooku threatened Ventress at a distance in order to help her escape, but he still sided with Sideous.

When Ventress helps Ahsoka by explaining to Anakin that Jedi Barriss Offee is behind the murder Ahsoka had been framed for, she explains her true change of heart. She found that she and Ahsoka had both been betrayed by their masters. She wasn’t wrong.

And this is why I try to champion the various animated series. They are what Lucas always intended—the best sort of storytelling. It’s a plain fact to anyone who has watched these things that the pacing and extreme long form of storytelling found in 133 episode long series is simply much better storytelling than you can get in any series of feature films. Highly recommended. If you still have a BluRay machine you can likely still borrow the discs at your local library and binge watch for a week. I promise you won’t be disappointed.

View: https://youtu.be/AjMw9tkvDp4?si=x_-kWL0_cvQ5j-si
 
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NomadicHavoc

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That's exactly the case. She is a really interesting character and fun to watch. She's really good at making a hasty exit which has kept her alive throughout The Clone Wars. That being said, she can definitely stand her own ground.
 
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Shadow Reaper

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Pedro Pascal has been confirmed to be starring in the upcoming Mandolorian and Grogu, which is surprising because I though he has been replaced in the TV series. Is that right they replaced him?
 
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NaffNaffBobFace

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Pedro Pascal has been confirmed to be starring in the upcoming Mandolorian and Grogu, which is surprising because I though he has been replaced in the TV series. Is that right they replaced him?
Interesting question that one - Looking it up on IMDB he's the title character for all 3 seasons to this point but check this article out on who's actually in the suit at any one time:


"The uncomfortable nature of the suit though, has led to Pascal admitting he did not wear the suit at all during The Mandalorian season 3. During a roundtable interview via The Hollywood Reporter, Pascal confirmed his voice-only role for Mandalorian season 3."

Bit of a Darth Vader/Vaders Voice situation going on there! :)

Interesting article check this out:

"bringing The Mandalorian’s titular character to life requires the combined efforts of three performers: Pascal himself, and stunt actors Brendan Wayne and Lateef Crowder. In fact, when filming “Sanctuary” for The Mandalorian season 1, it was Wayne behind the mask the whole time."

The magic of Hollywood!
 
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NomadicHavoc

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Pedro Pascal has been confirmed to be starring in the upcoming Mandolorian and Grogu, which is surprising because I though he has been replaced in the TV series. Is that right they replaced him?
I thought that I had read that Pedro is scheduled to make a Mandalorian movie, and was set to also star in season 3 of the Mandalorian. Season 3 had not started production yet I believe, so I would expect that the series will skip a calendar year to make room for the movie. Not really following this closely but that was my understanding.
 

Shadow Reaper

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Jenna Ortega walks away from five film deal at Disney because she doesn’t want to be involved with any DEI nonsense! This is the first time I’ve seen talent walk away from huge money based upon ideology.

Apparently, she wants to move on from horror and drama, and is interested in Marvel, but turned down that and the Pirates reboot because they wouldn’t give assurance they’re moving away from DEI. Pretty shocking story.

View: https://youtu.be/-0krqbzxnrs?si=D8jDraFgXqYNIdgC
 

NaffNaffBobFace

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Jenna Ortega walks away from five film deal at Disney because she doesn’t want to be involved with any DEI nonsense! This is the first time I’ve seen talent walk away from huge money based upon ideology.

Apparently, she wants to move on from horror and drama, and is interested in Marvel, but turned down that and the Pirates reboot because they wouldn’t give assurance they’re moving away from DEI. Pretty shocking story.

View: https://youtu.be/-0krqbzxnrs?si=D8jDraFgXqYNIdgC
A long time ago in a thread far far away I asked you to define your thinking around apparent agendas you indicated as 'woke' as I really, truly didn't understand and we went round a lot of theories and quite a bit of philosophy but didn't really get anywhere - however that's the first time I've seen you quantify your discomfort with something I can actually look up, research and learn about beyond buzzwords like "woke" and "mind virus" with the mention of Disney "DEI'"... I had to go look it up... "Diversity, Equity, Inclusion".

Thank you for the clarification that's helped a lot.

I looked it up and some of the schemes under the banner are what classically may be described as 'woke' focusing on race and gender identity, but under DEI it also includes things like hiring 10,000 veterans since 2012 with their "Heroes Work Here" inclusion scheme:


Hiring veterans is objectionable "DEI nonsense"...? I'm not really sure about that, isn't it pretty hard to hire and help people with potential PTSD...? Or is it more that Veterans are potentially suffering Mental Health issues which is the part which is supposed to be 'woke'...? Still trying to understand that one... But if hiring Veterans isn't 'woke' which I suspect it's not, is the other stuff under the DEI banner also not quite as apparently criticised? Looking at the published information about it, it seems DEI is less about making a certain kind of content and more about being an employer who doesn't persecute or discriminate against employees for certain traits they have little to no control over such as being military veterans?

...discomfort at concepts of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion someone may not feel at home with are individual, very much personal and super subjective to them for a myriad of reasons up to and including legitimate physical and mental trauma, so I'm not going to say anyone experiencing them are not uncomfortable and are not in some way personally validated by their own personal subjective reasoning... but I would suggest that potentially something somewhere may have happened in that persons past which a companies DEI policy might not be the root cause of, while also being able to be singled out as related to just because it mentions something one may not be totally comfortable with or potentially be traumatised by...

I'm not saying it is a perfect company but I also don't feel a policy of not discriminating against people due to things they have no control over is quite the villain it may be being singled out to be and that if there is an agenda at play, it may not necessarily be the one a company is instilling, it may be one you have been unintentionally amplifying on this thread... So going back to one of my previous as yet unanswered questions to explore that:

If it wasn't that particular perceived agenda in that movie, if it were another more preferable one to you or if there were no perceivable agenda at all, but the stories and scripts were otherwise the same... without the supposed politic would general opinion think the movie sucked less?

If no, it could it be more about those entertainment value of those particular story lines than any supposed agenda?
If so, is it not ones own personal perceptive discomfort about certain aspects of Disney DEI than it is about the storylines?
 
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Shadow Reaper

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Discrimination in the employment process has been illegal since 1935. That’s damn near a century.

This is why I do not want to engage with you, Naff. You are fundamentally a dishonest man who makes dishonest points. DEI has never been about anti-discrimination. DEI requires discrimination. It denounces the color-blind attitude of Dr.Martin Luther King for the anti-racist discrimination of Ibrim X Kendi. It does not seek equality but rather compensatory and punitive award with everything it handles. It is thus morally bankrupt. If you didn’t notice, this is perhaps a reflection of the way you sear your conscience through your continuous deception.

There is a reason the Leftist news channels no longer play clips of Dr. King on his birthday. What he wanted was a world where people are judged by the content of their character rather than the color of their skin. That’s what I grew up with. I have no idea anyone’s skin color here because this simply does not matter. Collectivist, socialist forces have been trying hard to make it matter again and as a result we have all this strife. That is the result of thinking in terms of group affiliation and subordinating individuality, but the sovereignty of the individual is what all Western Civilization is based upon. It is part of the foundation that has lifted so many billions from their stupor and hatred. You cannot pursue group identity politics without poisoning the soul, and King knew this. He preached it.

I do not want to engage with you. Please ignore my posts as I try with yours. There is no point in us engaging. You do not have worthy goals for our discussion.
 
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NaffNaffBobFace

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Discrimination in the employment process has been illegal since 1935. That’s damn near a century.

This is why I do not want to engage with you, Naff. You are fundamentally a dishonest man who makes dishonest points. DEI has never been about anti-discrimination. DEI requires discrimination. It denounced the color-blind attitude of Dr.Martin Luther King for the anti-racist discrimination of Ibrim X Kendi. It does not seek equality but rather punitive and compensatory award with everything it handles. It is thus morally bankrupt. If you didn’t notice, this is perhaps a reflection of the way you sear your conscience through your continuous deception.

I do not want to engage with you. Please ignore my posts as I try with yours. There is no point in us engaging. You do not have worthy goals for our discussion.
I have been totally transparent in stating "I don't know" and wanting actual information to research, read, understand and discuss. You pointed out something tangible which I could actually go and read up about so I did and returned with nothing more than the impression I got from what I found. The 10k veterans was a point that stuck with me which I didn't recognise from your previous posts about perceived agendas. I am interested in your interpretation of DEI as it sounds like a form of positive discrimination which in turn suggests the negative discrimination does indeed exist in the first place for there to be a positive version of, however:

I refute your suggestion of dishonesty and ill will - as outlined above all i have is curiosity and a churning confusion and if that causes you distress I have no interest in inflicting it upon you. I'm not here to ruin your day or your enjoyment of TEST.

I do accept there may be frustration caused when others may not comprehend your points, however I do find some things, especially your posts regarding SC and the stealth mechanic, easy to understand and an excellent set of details. I will not ignore you, for some of you posts are truly enlightening, long may they continue.

Of those posts you make, such as here in regard to our shared interest in Star Wars which are not so conceivable to me, I only wish to to understand - however I do understand if this causes you anguish and if you would prefer, I would be content to restrain my curiosity in those instances if you would be gracious enough to still allow me the pleasure of your pleasant conversation in matters we both clearly understand and agree on.
 
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Shadow Reaper

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So back to Star Wars, Headlund released comments about Acolyte that are very alarming. She explained in detail, her plan to queer the franchise and she mocked dissenters as a fringe minority, despite half a million fans gave thumbs down on the Acolyte trailer—80% of those who commented—definitely is not some fringe minority.

To be clear, there’s nothing in the trailer about queering Star Wars. That’s what Headlund claims is her number one concern. Complaints in the down vote comments don’t address that issue. They more generally address the DEI agenda, and the abandonment of Lucas’ cosmology. Headlund actually claims in her release that George went wrong in his cosmology and she is fixing it.

So George is wrong, 80% of the fans are wrong, Star Wars will be queered regardless and the world view about right and wrong will be changed forever, because Headlund knows best.

View: https://youtu.be/4pdCz62Tcj8?si=YQT-EF_lQj2PsDlw
 

Shadow Reaper

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Naff, I don’t want to maintain this animosity, so I’m willing to give discourse another try. However fair warning: if at any time I again feel you’re patronizing me in order to make some Leftist point, or are in any other way duplicitous, that will be our permanent disconnect. I respect people when they disagree with me. I do not respect when people patronize others and come to a discussion with a hidden agenda.

As to this DEI issue: there are a million places you can research what it is. Simply put, it replaces meritocracy or valuing someone based upon their character, with a grievance special Olympics where people claim their membership in some minority group entitles them to something: a job, monetary compensation, etc. DEI values diversity of race, sexual preference, etc. but it in no sense values diversity of ideas. It is absolutely draconian when it comes to gatekeeping institutions from heterogeneity. Everyone needs to think alike—like a fascist authoritarian regime. DEI wants people to be hired and fired based upon minority group membership and that is never going to yield a successful society. On its face it makes no sense. Do you want your airline pilot to be hired for her hours in the cockpit or because she checks the proper grievance boxes?

DEI is the pregnant form of Post-Modernism. P-M is the philosophical idea behind this disease, and it’s really helpful to understand ideas from a philosophical perspective. If you want to engage in this (and indeed it is the substance behind all the Disney news), I suggest watch this little primer and ask questions from it. Hicks is a world class Intellectual Historian and this is the best short history I’ve ever seen.

Let me tip my hand and say where I think this goes wrong and the only way it can be properly addressed. Epistemological skepticism is wrong. Claiming we can’t know truth is wrong. Pretending all narratives have equal value is wrong. The only way out of this mess is to assert and explain how truth matters. The moment you let go of truth as an objective thing to be grasped, you are in an intellectually hopeless and irredeemable position, IMHO.

View: https://youtu.be/1cuxEmy_Ipo?si=lSGRiK2_c8cBsFrj
 
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