Theorycrafting / Question about medical gameplay and large battle logistics:

Jan 5, 2016
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NaffNaffBobFace
#21
The only way I can see this working without hand-wavium ship spawning in the Endeavor Hangar is to have a Hull E packed with ship-transport Crates packed with fully-built hornets parked right next to the Hope waiting for the respawned to EVA over and grab a new ship.

And that would suck nuts because that shit 'aint no fun.

EDIT - Ah, and thats where it being an MMOPRG comes in. No endless battles for us, eh?
 
Jan 5, 2016
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NaffNaffBobFace
#23
Looks to me like support ships will be high value targets. I hope the same holds true for vandul fleets.
Sounds like there may not be much point bringing a Hope along - Might be better off just throwing bodies at it and then sending the medics in afterwards to sew all the limbs back on again.
 
Nov 2, 2017
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Horatus
#24
Sounds like there may not be much point bringing a Hope along - Might be better off just throwing bodies at it and then sending the medics in afterwards to sew all the limbs back on again.
I think it could have value in ground combat where you just have to transport people to the surface instead of halfway around the globe
 
Jan 5, 2016
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NaffNaffBobFace
#26
On the other hand, perhaps we are to combat focused? During Deep space missions (mining/outpost building/whatever) It would be handy to have a mobile hospital closer by to be able to respawn there instead of having to fly forever to get back to the location.
Now that is a good point. We're not playing a simple skirmisher here - it's a 'verse of possibilities.
 
Sep 25, 2017
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MrBambooza
#27
On the other hand, perhaps we are to combat focused? During Deep space missions (mining/outpost building/whatever) It would be handy to have a mobile hospital closer by to be able to respawn there instead of having to fly forever to get back to the location.
Whats the point of respawning and not have access to a ship? It might be better to respawn back at a station were you can buy a new ship or get an insurance claim ship delivered then spawning at a nearby hope and then having to stowaway on a cargo freighter heading back into populated space.
 

MikeNificent

Vice Admiral
Sep 24, 2016
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MikeNificent
#28
Whats the point of respawning and not have access to a ship? It might be better to respawn back at a station were you can buy a new ship or get an insurance claim ship delivered then spawning at a nearby hope and then having to stowaway on a cargo freighter heading back into populated space.
Exactly this. In space battles, fighters will explode. Pilots need new ships. So either a: bring ships, or b: spawn somewhere far away and get back to the fight.
 

Shadow Reaper

Grand Admiral
Jun 3, 2016
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Shadow Reaper
#29
IIUC, a bed may give you a choice to respawn there, but you have to set your spawn point. Not sure if this was official or some past theorycrafting, but IIRC the notion came up in discussions of why beds on ships are important. I know the presence of a bed serves to allow the ship itself to respawn on location when you log out, but not sure about the other function. If it's only the previous and not the latter, then I confess I don't understand the reason for more than one bed.

BTW, there was buzz of late that the Reliant is slated to become again a LONG RANGE fighter. Supposed to come out with the next patch with the Tana release. So could be. . .I HOPE I HOPE. . .they put the bed back in?
 

MikeNificent

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Sep 24, 2016
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MikeNificent
#30
IIUC, a bed may give you a choice to respawn there, but you have to set your spawn point. Not sure if this was official or some past theorycrafting, but IIRC the notion came up in discussions of why beds on ships are important. I know the presence of a bed serves to allow the ship itself to respawn on location when you log out, but not sure about the other function. If it's only the previous and not the latter, then I confess I don't understand the reason for more than one bed.

BTW, there was buzz of late that the Reliant is slated to become again a LONG RANGE fighter. Supposed to come out with the next patch with the Tana release. So could be. . .I HOPE I HOPE. . .they put the bed back in?
They have to do something with it to make it attractive because other than the spinny spinny novelty, it's outclassed in every category by a cheaper ship (titan). Adding range might make the exploration variant at least worth another look.
 
Sep 25, 2017
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MrBambooza
#31
Beds give both NPC's and PC's a set spawn point. It was working for a bit in the PU but has been broken for the past few updates. In fact they said that if you went to sleep in a bed no one else can use it until you awoke and they have not come up with if it will be possible from the ship owner to offload sleeping PC's to a station.
They do know that if you do not go to sleep in a bed then you will wake up at the closest habitation to the point you logged off or the last habitation you used. NPC's will not just log out with out using a bed and if none are available they will ghost your ship to the nearest habitation before logging out and despawing your ship.

Logging out in a bed will also quickly despawn your ship so long as its not engaged in combat were crashing / disconnecting or logging out will have your ship persist for an amount of time before it despawns so as to give you a chance to recover after an unexpected disconnect.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/...117-Star-Citizen-Docking-Beds-amp-Logging-Out
 
Dec 3, 2018
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Garik_Duvall
#32
Well I foresee a few things here.
1) I'm not so sure that patients will be treated that fast unless for minor injuries. I think the timer will be extended quite a but for those who need Class 1 beds and/or additional medical interaction from doctors. But that said, lets assume we do have a good turn over rate and we have bunch of guys waiting for deployment...

2a) [Edit: I see some of you state bay spawning has changed. Well if it has then this part will be nixed, have to wait and see]
IF the landing bay on the Endeavor Hope can spawn vehicles that then leaves you with a single ship slot for incoming patients (bay can hold 2 Cutlass Reds), so that's a risk/reward factor Captain will have to weigh to get troops back out there quicker. Uncertain yet if it has any other airlocks for ships to dock with it.
2b) Not all our our troops will be arriving via ambulance. In fact I suspect most will not as you can spawn directly on the Hope when you die. If that turns out to be the case then we can have the landing bay mostly outgoing, other then for the odd one bringing in injured crew.

3) You could indeed have a Valk or other ships assigned to ferry duty to take guys back to a Capital ship or other hub for reassignment.

4) If we're in a LARGE space battle, where we might have luxury of TWO Endeavor ships. 1 Hospital, 1 Support. We could dedicate one for incoming only (equipped with Landing Bay & Medical Module), and the second one's could be set for outgoing, spawning ships in it's bay (equipped with Landing Bay & "Service Equipment and Crew Pod" or "Fuel pod" for extra logistical help). An Argo could be assigned to transfer the crew between them which could be pretty quick if they are next to each other. [Edit: Again, this one may be out if only the Endeavors owner can spawn ships.]
 
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Dec 3, 2018
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Garik_Duvall
#33
Whats the point of respawning and not have access to a ship? It might be better to respawn back at a station were you can buy a new ship or get an insurance claim ship delivered then spawning at a nearby hope and then having to stowaway on a cargo freighter heading back into populated space.
Later down the line, if you are in deep space I don't know if they will let you respawn at a planet/space station half way across the galaxy. My impression was that a spawn point had to be in range, otherwise you could potentially just die out in space if not rescued in time. I'm still not 100% clear on what they've imagined with spawns/deaths vs whats is in-game atm. For instance is spawning nearby considered using up one of your lives? Or is that considered just a shortcut to having to wait to get rescued, etc and you just pay a service fee for it?

I mean Death of a Spaceman made it sound like if no one answers your help beacon you run out of oxygen and die. Seems they want death to be a real consequence and not "oh we have all these lives, we can just respawn willy nilly and get a new ship". You may have significant lasting injuries/stat impairments if you've 'died' several times, until you eventual hit permadeath.
 
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Sep 25, 2017
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MrBambooza
#34
Later down the line, if you are in deep space I don't know if they will let you respawn at a planet/space station half way across the galaxy. My impression was that a spawn point had to be in range, otherwise you could potentially just die out in space if not rescued in time. I'm still not 100% clear on what they've imagined with spawns/deaths vs whats is in-game atm. For instance is spawning nearby considered using up one of your lives? Or is that considered just a shortcut to having to wait to get rescued, etc and you just pay a service fee for it?

I mean Death of a Spaceman made it sound like if no one answers your help beacon you run out of oxygen and die. Seems they want death to be a real consequence and not "oh we have all these lives, we can just respawn willy nilly and get a new ship". You may have significant lasting injuries/stat impairments if you've 'died' several times, until you eventual hit permadeath.

They do want death to mean something but its unclear how in game events will effect your current chars life, and in fact it seems like they themselves are very unclear as to how its going to work. It was mentioned recently that the bounty system would clone your char so that you could continue to play while the bounty hunter had a copy of you to continue on with their mission.

It was talked about in the medical writeup that the act of respawning would be more costly to your chars continue life before dieing then going through the rescue and recovery. And that you will always be able to respawn at the last habitable place you visited (IE Hurston, Port Olisar, ...) like we currently see in the game, but that they wanted more game play features with in the medical profession allowing S&R, med beds with the reward that the damage can be repaired with out ticks being taken off your chars life.

The last thing was in the latest ask the Dev they were talking about persistence in everything from clothing to guns and ammo. This means that the Hope will only have ships in its hanger that were placed there and will not be able to spawn ships, ammo, weapons out of thin air. That even modulus for repairs, ammo and weapons will need to be stored and will take up space.
 
Jan 5, 2016
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NaffNaffBobFace
#35
This means that the Hope will only have ships in its hanger that were placed there and will not be able to spawn ships, ammo, weapons out of thin air. That even modulus for repairs, ammo and weapons will need to be stored and will take up space.
I always thought the Hope would be better served by a suite of 6/10/20 Quantum enabled specialist Snub ships in a dedicated Bay, so once the guys are dropped off by a Cutlass or Apollo in the main landing bay or spawn on the ship they can then Quantum to where they need to be rather than wait for some NPC to fly a ship to the Hope and then basically be stranded until it arrives or have the NPC then stranded, or have to rely on some NPC taxi that might not take you to the exact location on that moon where you fell off a cliff and all your stuff is, or a player taxi who might ignore your request to go there because they want to get all the whiny players off their Hope ASAP and dump you at the nearest rest-stop to thumb a lift.

The snub could either than return to the hope via an automated beacon or, as Auto-Pilot apparently isn't going to be a thing, just de-spawn once the player gets out and restocks the Hope.

It's a total blocker as far as game-play is concerned, who wants to be stuck on a Hope in the outer-systems waiting five hours for an Aurora to Quantum to you? And as for persistence what happens when the Aurora arrives and it hasn't got enough Quantum Fuel to go anywhere else??? Does the Hope captain then need to give you some of his and then he can't go anywhere else?

Medical game play may be attractive to some players but I doubt Hotel and Hospitality game play is attractive to the same group.
 
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Nov 22, 2015
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Bungtater
#36
  • Phil

    Phil

This is the cost of a realistic living game, if you want realism than yes you just can't have infinite respawns that would be like playing battlefield or call of duty and I hate those type of respawn 5 seconds later and shoot them in the back mechanics. In a real world you get 1 ship, 1 fleet and this is where size, strategy and skill come into play and to me this is what this game is about.
 
Sep 25, 2017
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MrBambooza
#37
I always thought the Hope would be better served by a suite of 6/10/20 Quantum enabled specialist Snub ships in a dedicated Bay, so once the guys are dropped off by a Cutlass or Apollo in the main landing bay or spawn on the ship they can then Quantum to where they need to be rather than wait for some NPC to fly a ship to the Hope and then basically be stranded until it arrives or have the NPC then stranded, or have to rely on some NPC taxi that might not take you to the exact location on that moon where you fell off a cliff and all your stuff is, or a player taxi who might ignore your request to go there because they want to get all the whiny players off their Hope ASAP and dump you at the nearest rest-stop to thumb a lift.

The snub could either than return to the hope via an automated beacon or, as Auto-Pilot apparently isn't going to be a thing, just de-spawn once the player gets out and restocks the Hope.
I think a better option would be a shuttle service to bring the recovered pilots back to a ship like the Kraken, but honestly I feel like space battles are going to be short lived events as replacement fighters and bombers are going to be hard to come by. Where ships like the Hope, Apollo and especially the valkyrie will be ground based combat where it will be more like playing battlefield. One thing that can make space combat allow for the medical profession to be critical would be if capital ships don't really blow up and boarding parties are required. Otherwise recovered downed pilots can be recovered and healed but they will not be very useful for the remainder of the battle.

It's a total blocker as far as game-play is concerned, who wants to be stuck on a Hope in the outer-systems waiting five hours for an Aurora to Quantum to you? And as for persistence what happens when the Aurora arrives and it hasn't got enough Quantum Fuel to go anywhere else??? Does the Hope captain then need to give you some of his and then he can't go anywhere else?
Yep pretty much which is why the Starfarer is going to be popular.

Medical game play may be attractive to some players but I doubt Hotel and Hospitality game play is attractive to the same group.
I have a feeling for the most part the Hope is going to be used for R&D and exploration and not so much for the medical outside of being a base of operation for an explorer fleet.
 
Nov 2, 2017
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Raither
#38
On the edge of buying an Apollo Triage, but waiting to see how the game play comes out

Hope we find out more soon

Also very curious about the Transit Citizen thing. Should we start up an Uber TEST division? Seen people make a killing on transporting people for gold or whatever currencies in other games, and have done it myself to fund alts. Maybe our 300i's and 315p's are going to make people more money than we think
 
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Jan 5, 2016
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NaffNaffBobFace
#39
On the edge of buying an Apollo Triage, but waiting to see how the game play comes out

Hope we find out more soon

Also very curious about the Transit Citizen thing. Should we start up an Uber TEST division? Seen people make a killing on transporting people for gold or whatever currencies in other games, and have done it myself to fund alts. Maybe our 300i's and 315p's are going to make people more money than we think
When I played X2 carrying dudes between stations made me a lotta bank. That said, Jumpworks had better live up to it's name - sub-quantum they are fast enough but 15 minutes between Olisar and Hurston at QD in a 350R? I could litterally get up and go fill the dish washer. I didn't because I'm lazy, but I could have. Any passenger will be hopping aboard the Vanguard at the taxi rank, that thing makes it in 5 minutes.