Coronavirus COVID-19 Thread

Blind Owl

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Honestly hospitals are swamped as it is. They have to worry about a revolving door of cancer patients, sick kids, and idiots who hurt themselves with sex toys (it's true). I think having a well formulated pandemic plan usually isn't something they give much thought to. There's also a limit to what they can do. If a hospital has 150 beds, they have 150 beds. If there are 50 ICU wards, there's 50 ICU wards. They can maybe reserve additional resources but that costs money. Ultimately hospitals also take their cue from the government health authorities. If our governments are indecisive or worse...incompetent, there's only so much they can do.

The biggest fear right now is a Triage situation like what's going on in Italy. Doctors and nurses having to decide who gets to live and who dies because there just aren't enough resources to treat everyone.

Don't forget while all this is going on...the general unaffected public will still be having heart attacks, strokes, shooting each other up, etc.
Truth: our hospitals operate at 100-110% all the time.

My wife's biggest fear is having to triage like they are in Italy. It's freaking scary for those who have to work the frontlines.
Right.

I hate to sound alarmist, but we should not be waiting for 20,000 cases in NY before action is taken.

I wish they would just look what these other countries have done, and get ahead of the numbers!
Amen to this. 100%. Preparation is NOT alarmist.
Preaching to the choir here.

There's also the issue of the European style public Healthcare system and the US Style 'for profit' system.

That's a whole can of worms though and I'll not open it...at least not on these forums.
I'm right there with you brother. Thank Christ we live where we do.
 

Vavrik

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Virologist, science, models etc are predicting 3-6 months of outbreak - minimum, at least here in Canada. That being said, if we can slow the spread of this thing in that timeframe, and keep the healthcare system from being overwhelmed, as it has been in Italy, we may not have quite the death toll.
Thank you. I was just wondering, I have a professional and more than a few personal interests in what's happening in Canada. We don't get a lot of Canadian news down here, and what we do is usually just the CBC news feed from Youtube. While I was there last week, the situation was just starting to jell with people. Here in the Southern US, there is no real recognition of the risk ... they're blissfully unconcerned and their biggest problem is the lack of toilet paper.
 

Blind Owl

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Thank you. I was just wondering, I have a professional and more than a few personal interests in what's happening in Canada. We don't get a lot of Canadian news down here, and what we do is usually just the CBC news feed from Youtube. While I was there last week, the situation was just starting to jell with people. Here in the Southern US, there is no real recognition of the risk ... they're blissfully unconcerned and their biggest problem is the lack of toilet paper.
Yeah, people here seem to understand. It's not about panicking (althy the panic buying is ridiculous), it's about social distancing to slow the spread. And whether or not people get it, institutions and the government do. So schools, gyms, public events, concerts, etc etc etc are shutting down. It may seem excessive, but if it saves lives...
 

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Thank you. I was just wondering, I have a professional and more than a few personal interests in what's happening in Canada. We don't get a lot of Canadian news down here, and what we do is usually just the CBC news feed from Youtube. While I was there last week, the situation was just starting to jell with people. Here in the Southern US, there is no real recognition of the risk ... they're blissfully unconcerned and their biggest problem is the lack of toilet paper.
The main thing we're practicing now is Social Distancing. My entire industry for example has been put on leave.

The simple fact is that the destinies of Canada and the United States are intertwined. There's a lot of trade and personal relationships between the two countries. My partner herself is from Oregon. What I'm trying to say is that in the event of a pandemic like Covid19, we cannot keep out the disease if one side gets it. Right now the biggest problem both countries is facing is the lack of testing kits AND the lengthy delay in getting results. In the US there's a lack of testing kits AND a lack in the political will to administer said tests. A certain Administration believes that if you stick your head in the sand, the problem will magically go away. They want to keep the official infection numbers low because it looks bad in an election year. I believe this is criminally irresponsible.

Consider these numbers:

Population of the United States = 330 million
Number of known Covid 19 cases = 2900

Population of Italy = 60.3 million
Number of known Covid19 cases = 21000

Just random numbers right? How did Italy get all that bad luck? The US is doing alright in this pandemic nonsense...nothing but fear mongering right? On the contrary, I'll argue that the US has infinitely more trade and personal relations with Asia. The number of Covid19 cases is low because it's not being reported. The reason why US cases are much lower per capita is that there is NO testing being done. This pandemic won't be felt in the US until Grandpa and Grandma mysteriously start keeling over while watching Hannity. I predict until proper testing is administered, you'll start to see a lot of deaths that will be attributed to the 'flu' or 'pneumonia'.

Panic buying and hoarding is ridiculous and irresponsible. Society isn't suddenly gonna collapse Walking Dead Style. No..fuck that shit, social distancing is what people should practice instead. Again I'll like to stress that this isn't to protect yourself (I assume most of us here are below 70 and in decent health), it's to do the right thing and protect the weakest in our society. It's to give our front line healthcare workers breathing room for the inevitable surge of patients. You can be a carrier without exhibiting ANY symptoms. It's terrific that you feel great but what about your unhealthy Uncle Jim? What with his lifelong smoking habit and respiratory problems? You can still pass it on to him and kill the poor bastard.

Lately I'm sure you've been hearing everyone talk about 'Flattening the Curve'....what does that mean? Graph and number mumbo jumbo aside, it basically means slowing the spread (even to healthy young people who will exhibit no symptoms) in order give our medical facilities a fighting chance. We can help flatten that curve just by practicing social distancing and washing our hands.
 
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Blind Owl

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Panic buying and hoarding is ridiculous and irresponsible. Society isn't suddenly gonna collapse Walking Dead Style. No..fuck that shit, social distancing is what people should practice instead. Again I'll like to stress that this isn't to protect yourself (I assume most of us here are below 70 and in decent health), it's to do the right thing and protect the weakest in our society. It's to give our front line healthcare workers breathing room for the inevitable surge of patients. You can be a carrier without exhibiting ANY symptoms. It's terrific that you feel great but what about your unhealthy Uncle Jim? What with his lifelong smoking habit and respiratory problems? You can still pass it on to him and kill the poor bastard.

Lately I'm sure you've been hearing everyone talk about 'Flattening the Curve'....what does that mean? Graph and number mumbo jumbo aside, it basically means slowing the spread (even to healthy young people who will exhibit no symptoms) in order give our medical facilities a fighting chance. We can help flatten that curve just by practicing social distancing and washing our hands.
Well said. I'm actually quite happy to see "flattening the curve" trending almost everywhere I look. It feels like people may actually be listening.
 

Jolly_Green_Giant

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I'm trying to weigh my options right now. I have the opportunity to work at the hospital again, but I'm really questioning if I should considering my family is all over 70. The likelihood of me bringing it home and spreading to them would be much much higher if im going to work at the hospital every day. Even if I came home once a week, considering the possibility of sleeping on cots elsewhere and the like, I think its still likely I would bring it home to my family. I live with my 84 year old aunt, and my 75 year old grandma and 92 year old grandpa will probably rely on me to go get groceries and their meds from time to time barring they arent still saying "if I die, I die" and going out anyways. Im getting a lot of flak, just had a big argument about it last night with my aunt. But, everything in me is telling me I need to go and do my part. Im unemployed, ive been feeling pretty purposeless. But god damn did I love being an EMT, and it was mostly in the ER. I even have paramedic school under my belt so I have even more to bring to the table. Im okay with living in hell if it means something. Risk the family getting sick and upset or do my part and help my country. I'm really stuck and I dont know what I should do.
 

Vavrik

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The main thing we're practicing now is Social Distancing. My entire industry for example has been put on leave.

The simple fact is that the destinies of Canada and the United States are intertwined. There's a lot of trade and personal relationships between the two countries. My partner herself is from Oregon. What I'm trying to say is that in the event of a pandemic like Covid19, we cannot keep out the disease if one side gets it. Right now the biggest problem both countries is facing is the lack of testing kits AND the lengthy delay in getting results. In the US there's a lack of testing kits AND a lack in the political will to administer said tests. A certain Administration believes that if you stick your head in the sand, the problem will magically go away. They want to keep the official infection numbers low because it looks bad in an election year. I believe this is criminally irresponsible.

Consider these numbers:

Population of the United States = 330 million
Number of known Covid 19 cases = 2900

Population of Italy = 60.3 million
Number of known Covid19 cases = 21000

Just random numbers right? How did Italy get all that bad luck? The US is doing alright in this pandemic nonsense...nothing but fear mongering right? On the contrary, I'll argue that the US has infinitely more trade and personal relations with Asia. The number of Covid19 cases is low because it's not being reported. The reason why US cases are much lower per capita is that there is NO testing being done. This pandemic won't be felt in the US until Grandpa and Grandma mysteriously start keeling over while watching Hannity. I predict until proper testing is administered, you'll start to see a lot of deaths that will be attributed to the 'flu' or 'pneumonia'.

Panic buying and hoarding is ridiculous and irresponsible. Society isn't suddenly gonna collapse Walking Dead Style. No..fuck that shit, social distancing is what people should practice instead. Again I'll like to stress that this isn't to protect yourself (I assume most of us here are below 70 and in decent health), it's to do the right thing and protect the weakest in our society. It's to give our front line healthcare workers breathing room for the inevitable surge of patients. You can be a carrier without exhibiting ANY symptoms. It's terrific that you feel great but what about your unhealthy Uncle Jim? What with his lifelong smoking habit and respiratory problems? You can still pass it on to him and kill the poor bastard.

Lately I'm sure you've been hearing everyone talk about 'Flattening the Curve'....what does that mean? Graph and number mumbo jumbo aside, it basically means slowing the spread (even to healthy young people who will exhibit no symptoms) in order give our medical facilities a fighting chance. We can help flatten that curve just by practicing social distancing and washing our hands.
This is great by the way. Thank you.

The problem for me is, I do not think enough is being done. I feel like I need to add some context to the questions. Up until last spring, I was a software architect and developer in the health and human safety industries (and a few other related industries). I left because I had an idea that turned into a business opportunity. Fully half of my career had been in Canada, and the other half in the US. I'm still in part of the industry because I can't fund the business idea, and it's development myself, but I no longer have the security clearances I once had.

My wife found this article yesterday. It explains the reason for my concerns with the measures that have been taken in both countries. Please read it and watch the illustrations.
 

Radegast74

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I'm trying to weigh my options right now. I have the opportunity to work at the hospital again, but I'm really questioning if I should considering my family is all over 70. The likelihood of me bringing it home and spreading to them would be much much higher if im going to work at the hospital every day. Even if I came home once a week, considering the possibility of sleeping on cots elsewhere and the like, I think its still likely I would bring it home to my family. I live with my 84 year old aunt, and my 75 year old grandma and 92 year old grandpa will probably rely on me to go get groceries and their meds from time to time barring they arent still saying "if I die, I die" and going out anyways. Im getting a lot of flak, just had a big argument about it last night with my aunt. But, everything in me is telling me I need to go and do my part. Im unemployed, ive been feeling pretty purposeless. But god damn did I love being an EMT, and it was mostly in the ER. I even have paramedic school under my belt so I have even more to bring to the table. Im okay with living in hell if it means something. Risk the family getting sick and upset or do my part and help my country. I'm really stuck and I dont know what I should do.
FYI:
1584286314126.png
 

Jolly_Green_Giant

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Yeah, in the time i typed that to now I had another long conversation with my grandmother. It would be really reckless of me to work in the hospital and think I wouldn't bring the virus home. But god damn, Its like its calling me to go help out you know. I also just texted the ER director of one of my local hospitals and hes on a wait and see status right now but appreciates the support. Ill find some other way to volunteer when the time comes if I can. I love my family, It just sucks that Im overcome with these urges to just throw myself to the fire to help and see what happens. Working in the ER, Military, SpaceX and a few inbetween jobs, I thrive in stressful environments. I'm a bit crazy but arent we all in some capacity? Its like @ColdDog was saying earlier though. Take care of your family. As selfless as I would think I'm being, it would actually be pretty selfish if I'm putting my family at risk.
 

Vavrik

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Yeah, in the time i typed that to now I had another long conversation with my grandmother. It would be really reckless of me to work in the hospital and think I wouldn't bring the virus home. But god damn, Its like its calling me to go help out you know. I also just texted the ER director of one of my local hospitals and hes on a wait and see status right now but appreciates the support. Ill find some other way to volunteer when the time comes if I can. I love my family, It just sucks that Im overcome with these urges to just throw myself to the fire to help and see what happens. Working in the ER, Military, SpaceX and a few inbetween jobs, I thrive in stressful environments. I'm a bit crazy but arent we all in some capacity? Its like @ColdDog was saying earlier though. Take care of your family. As selfless as I would think I'm being, it would actually be pretty selfish if I'm putting my family at risk.
I want to assure you, your desire to help is not selfish, it's selfless. You have enough experience to know there is a danger to your family... Take care of them first, then use what's left to help others if you can without undue risk to your family. That's all anyone could do.
 

Aramsolari

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Yeah, in the time i typed that to now I had another long conversation with my grandmother. It would be really reckless of me to work in the hospital and think I wouldn't bring the virus home. But god damn, Its like its calling me to go help out you know. I also just texted the ER director of one of my local hospitals and hes on a wait and see status right now but appreciates the support. Ill find some other way to volunteer when the time comes if I can. I love my family, It just sucks that Im overcome with these urges to just throw myself to the fire to help and see what happens. Working in the ER, Military, SpaceX and a few inbetween jobs, I thrive in stressful environments. I'm a bit crazy but arent we all in some capacity? Its like @ColdDog was saying earlier though. Take care of your family. As selfless as I would think I'm being, it would actually be pretty selfish if I'm putting my family at risk.
Any way to work and live away from your at risk relatives?
 

Jolly_Green_Giant

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Any way to work and live away from your at risk relatives?
Id sleep on a cot or sleeping bag if need be, doesnt matter if its at the hospital or elsewhere, but my family is really pissed at me for even entertaining the idea at this point. Ill see how things go in the next few months. Theyll need someone to go get groceries and stuff at some point, and Id rather be the one to do it. If they get sick with anything theyre gonna need my help. It might just end up being one of those opportunities to where i have no choice but to act. This could potentially not be that bad, doubt, but I can hope.
 

ColdDog

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Id sleep on a cot or sleeping bag if need be, doesnt matter if its at the hospital or elsewhere, but my family is really pissed at me for even entertaining the idea at this point. Ill see how things go in the next few months. Theyll need someone to go get groceries and stuff at some point, and Id rather be the one to do it. If they get sick with anything theyre gonna need my help. It might just end up being one of those opportunities to where i have no choice but to act. This could potentially not be that bad, doubt, but I can hope.
Jolly in all seriousness, our generation has been the front lines for over 30 years... first Iraq war, Bosnia, 9-11, Afghanistan, 2nd Iraq war, war on terror. I agree, we are trained to jump into the battle and do what is right. I would say, it is time to pass the torch, our parents are older and we have to let other people pick up the ball. People close to us (our family) sacrificed for so many years while we were out doing our duty, now it is time for you to think about them and respect their wishes. All, I am saying, is you do not need to be the first in anymore, you can still help remotely by helping coordination and planning. Your decision alone, I hope you listen to your family.
 

Radegast74

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Id sleep on a cot or sleeping bag if need be, doesnt matter if its at the hospital or elsewhere, but my family is really pissed at me for even entertaining the idea at this point. Ill see how things go in the next few months. Theyll need someone to go get groceries and stuff at some point, and Id rather be the one to do it. If they get sick with anything theyre gonna need my help. It might just end up being one of those opportunities to where i have no choice but to act. This could potentially not be that bad, doubt, but I can hope.
Another graphic:
Screen Shot 2020-03-15 at 12.31.54 PM.png


If this is like past events like this, in a couple of months it will have worked itself out (one way or another), but they will need replacement paramedics/EMTs, and you can help out then. FYI, there is also a possibility this could come back next winter...
 

NaffNaffBobFace

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UK fatalities up by 14.

Also, this from the financial times:

"A short text message sent out automatically by the Austrian foreign ministry to all registered citizens travelling in the countries reads: “Travel warning (security level 6) for UK, Netherlands, Russia, Ukraine! Travelers are advised to return to Austria! Your State Department.” Level 6 is the highest level of risk on the Austrian government’s classification system for its citizens abroad. The four countries are foremost among those to have taken a more gradualist or hands-off approach to containing the disease. The UK in particularly stands out among Western European nations in having done relatively little so far to restrict public life."

EDIT - I tried to link to the article but it just went to a "SUBSCRIBE" page, so no linkback for you FT! Oh, go on then: https://www.ft.com/content/22d8a8e9-aa6f-3740-9d61-a96816628dff Strewth, Continue this kind of shenanigans to non-financial news and I'll have to put you on my list of sources that I may not be able to 100% rely on like Gossip Linda behind the counter of the local shop or Crazy Verne who hangs out down by the railway sidings waiting for those aliens to come back again.
 
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Blind Owl

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I'm trying to weigh my options right now. I have the opportunity to work at the hospital again, but I'm really questioning if I should considering my family is all over 70. The likelihood of me bringing it home and spreading to them would be much much higher if im going to work at the hospital every day. Even if I came home once a week, considering the possibility of sleeping on cots elsewhere and the like, I think its still likely I would bring it home to my family. I live with my 84 year old aunt, and my 75 year old grandma and 92 year old grandpa will probably rely on me to go get groceries and their meds from time to time barring they arent still saying "if I die, I die" and going out anyways. Im getting a lot of flak, just had a big argument about it last night with my aunt. But, everything in me is telling me I need to go and do my part. Im unemployed, ive been feeling pretty purposeless. But god damn did I love being an EMT, and it was mostly in the ER. I even have paramedic school under my belt so I have even more to bring to the table. Im okay with living in hell if it means something. Risk the family getting sick and upset or do my part and help my country. I'm really stuck and I dont know what I should do.
Yeah, in the time i typed that to now I had another long conversation with my grandmother. It would be really reckless of me to work in the hospital and think I wouldn't bring the virus home. But god damn, Its like its calling me to go help out you know. I also just texted the ER director of one of my local hospitals and hes on a wait and see status right now but appreciates the support. Ill find some other way to volunteer when the time comes if I can. I love my family, It just sucks that Im overcome with these urges to just throw myself to the fire to help and see what happens. Working in the ER, Military, SpaceX and a few inbetween jobs, I thrive in stressful environments. I'm a bit crazy but arent we all in some capacity? Its like @ColdDog was saying earlier though. Take care of your family. As selfless as I would think I'm being, it would actually be pretty selfish if I'm putting my family at risk.
Being a public servant myself, I feel like I can relate to your urge to want to help. But like @ColdDog said, man, pass the torch, protect your family: you've done enough! And if the time comes where you're really needed, then hey, step in then. But for now, slowing this thing is key. Being sidelined sucks - we've been stood down for 3 weeks, but in the meantime we just hunker down, siege time with family, and wait for the call.
My wife found this article yesterday. It explains the reason for my concerns with the measures that have been taken in both countries. Please read it and watch the illustrations.
Just read that article. Amazing what some social distancing can do eh?
I want to assure you, your desire to help is not selfish, it's selfless. You have enough experience to know there is a danger to your family... Take care of them first, then use what's left to help others if you can without undue risk to your family. That's all anyone could do.
Amen to this.
Jolly in all seriousness, our generation has been the front lines for over 30 years... first Iraq war, Bosnia, 9-11, Afghanistan, 2nd Iraq war, war on terror. I agree, we are trained to jump into the battle and do what is right. I would say, it is time to pass the torch, our parents are older and we have to let other people pick up the ball. People close to us (our family) sacrificed for so many years while we were out doing our duty, now it is time for you to think about them and respect their wishes. All, I am saying, is you do not need to be the first in anymore, you can still help remotely by helping coordination and planning. Your decision alone, I hope you listen to your family.
Hella Amen to this.
 

SoloFlyer

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This past week a coworker was wiping down the breakroom counter with lysol wipes and then open mouth coughs all over the coffee maker. I know I'm going to be bleeding from my orifices with the wutang flu soon enough
 
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