Why are ships so hard? (this may be a shitpost)

Grimbli

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*sigh* So true now. Maybe a 315, lol. Makes me wish I'd picked up a small explorer. Maybe the Reliant Sen.
I do have a SEN! It'll be my science scout since the Endeavor front end doesn't have science equipment.

I want the Carrack some fierce. If she comes available, that'll be the one my Star-G becomes. That bridge is glorious.

I concur with your thoughts on the Aquila. Alone is deep space, fine, but taking her into hostile space alone. Probably not the smartest move.
I'm not sure deep space would be all that safe either. There's algorithms in place for determining if you're ambushed. But those will probably be NPC ships and easy to kill.

I agree. A larger ship (depending on its role) should be able to defend against one or two fighters, at least long enough to get out of there or escorts arrive.
Against NPCs I'm sure any ship will be fine. The Gemini should be able to take down dozens as they come in waves. Larger ships like a Carrack or Reclaimer may have a bit of trouble as they're much larger with the same number of turrets. However, the turrets grow to S5 and even Capital size on some of those, so a single shot should take down a fighter.
The only way to really keep the bombers safe was not only to send fighter escorts
This is relevant but doesn't correlate exactly as bomber were armored similarly to fighters whereas these ships have much more armor and bigger shields. Not to mention that some of the guns on these bigger ships are the size of smaller fighters.

The point about discipline holds doubly true as escorts will not be able to fly full tilt and circle the attackers as they'll have a high chance of slamming into the ship they're sworn to protect.
 

Grimbli

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Is it already clear if it is possible to switch all the gear between variants in game? I had a Freelancer as smal/medium transport, but was quite impressed by its flight capabilities, so I upgraded it to a MIS for its combat abilities. Can I replace the missile loading system with scanning equipment in game?
The 350R has its fuselage re-engineered to accommodate two thrusters. It would be obvious if that couldn't be reversed in game :)
The video for the Aurora seemed to indicate you could switch out any single piece for the other's parts. Like leather seats, holding cargo, and weapons. So other than locked in physical traits I'd assume you can change anything.
 

Shadow Reaper

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Is it already clear if it is possible to switch all the gear between variants in game?
My guess is it will not be possible. I have thought what a great ship the Freelancer would be with the double engines of the freighter, S5's of the base model, scanners of the Dur and Missiles and targeting systems of the Mis, but I doubt very much we will be able to build that.
 

Grimbli

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My guess is it will not be possible. I have thought what a great ship the Freelancer would be with the double engines of the freighter, S5's of the base model, scanners of the Dur and Missiles and targeting systems of the Mis, but I doubt very much we will be able to build that.
It may be a special case with the Aurora being so modular that they can switch out pieces. I doubt that modeled items such as DUR fuel tanks or antenna can be added to other variants.
 

marcsand2

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My guess is it will not be possible. I have thought what a great ship the Freelancer would be with the double engines of the freighter, S5's of the base model, scanners of the Dur and Missiles and targeting systems of the Mis, but I doubt very much we will be able to build that.
I didn't checked that :eek: but luckily the S5s are on the DUR and the MIS (lucky me), the base has S2 and the MAX has S4.
Guns matter, I can get used to lack of speed. I have a Gladiator Bomber which I also use allot to fight in. It outclasses other fighters in guns and missiles but has to give in on speed
and manoeuvrability. Another feature I wasn't aware of: "The Civilian model allows pilots to choose between an extra cargo hold or a bomb bay."...
I'm more versatile than I was aware off ;)
 

Ripcord33

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I had heard, that you can switch out items, thats kinda the point of their system, and the whole base model process. the fuel tanks can be swapped, etc, the only ones i ever had questions about where the Constellation series because i have heard two different quotes regarding this system, one is that you can swap anything that isnt a permant addition/removal from the hull, the other was you can swap everything.

The reason i questioned the Constellation series on this is, ok someone wants to get into it for cheap so they go with the taurus, well they lose the snub option, and a turret, now if the smugglers bay where the turret used to be is just a slap in module, cool at least i can put the turret back on, but the rear end of the taurus is a modification of the entire hull.

So when it comes to ship upgrades, im not 100% but i think it will be reasonably flexible to give people options to upgrade to one of the non base models.

As for the escort thing, dont think of this as comparable to air warfare, its more similar to Naval warfare, the big fuel tankers and cargo ships are more like frigates and large merchant ships of WWII, generally always escorted by at least a few destroyers and maybe a cruiser or two.
 

Shadow Reaper

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I think the mods are probably going to be limited by what ports show up on the ship. So only weapons ports can take weapons, you need an equipment port for various sorts of equipment, etc. This has me worried, since I want to put the Warlock's EMP Generator in the back of a Reliant, but there are no equipping ports in cargo areas. So what is with that? I dunno. I think there will be a lot of folks complain that they can't use cargo area for equipment when they want to build their ships, but OTOH if there aren't specific restrictions people will build designs that are so obviously better that their design will replace others that are similar, and we'll have a lack of variety. Especially note the interest in combining the Ghost and Tracker qualities. If you can do that, no one will own either of these separately. All sneaky Hornets will be Ghost/Trackers.

If I had my druthers, I'd combine the Tracker, Ghost and EMP functions all in a Reliant, and will still try if they'll let me. I'm not betting on it.
 

Blind Owl

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I think about it as the same dynamic history records with fighters attacking bombers during WWII. The fighters almost always won. The bombers would group together and cover each other with their turrets, but bomber crews in WWII had the lowest survival rate of any form of service in that war. The only way to really keep the bombers safe was not only to send fighter escorts, but for those escorts to practice sufficient discipline as to stay with the bombers rather than go hunting for kills. Even with that discipline in place, and gunners at every turret, and as many defending fighters as attacking fighters, bombers did not have a good survival rate. We should all keep this in mind because the Redeemer is just not nearly as lethal and survivable as the Buck, or Hornet or Sabre.
And note, we no longer build bombers with turrets. We haven't in half century.
I view it as more of the air support around a fleet of naval vessels. In WWII terms, ships like the Gemini and the Carrack and the Endeavour relate much more to naval vessels then they do to bombers. I think you'll find they have quite a bit more survivability than those bombers of days past.
Right now, I am torn between the Carrack and the Aquila. Do I get the bigger ship I would LOVE to have or do I get a slight smaller ship and be less as the mercy of having to organize bigger effort if I want to go do something. I'm torn and I still have not made up my mind... To paraphrase the thread title, ships are hard....
Ships ARE hard. I'm dealing with this too. I'm trying to figure out what ship I want as an exploration vessel. It's damn difficult.
The Freelancer is the largest ship that can fit through a small wormhole, and should provide a much larger scan area and general exploration capability than the 300 series.
I concur. IF it fits, it's the obvious choice.
I do have a SEN! It'll be my science scout since the Endeavor front end doesn't have science equipment.
Will the SEN be a decent explorer?
Against NPCs I'm sure any ship will be fine. The Gemini should be able to take down dozens as they come in waves. Larger ships like a Carrack or Reclaimer may have a bit of trouble as they're much larger with the same number of turrets. However, the turrets grow to S5 and even Capital size on some of those, so a single shot should take down a fighter.
This was my thought as well. I'm wondering if NPC ran turrets will have better luck than player run turrets. At the moment anyways.
As for the escort thing, dont think of this as comparable to air warfare, its more similar to Naval warfare, the big fuel tankers and cargo ships are more like frigates and large merchant ships of WWII, generally always escorted by at least a few destroyers and maybe a cruiser or two
My thoughts were along the same line. Although I imagined it more as naval ships escorted by air support.
Especially note the interest in combining the Ghost and Tracker qualities. If you can do that, no one will own either of these separately. All sneaky Hornets will be Ghost/Trackers.

I think . . .
This has been tickling my mind as well. To the point in thinking of buying/renting both, and seeing if the sensor package will load into the Ghost.
 

Ripcord33

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I think the mods are probably going to be limited by what ports show up on the ship. So only weapons ports can take weapons, you need an equipment port for various sorts of equipment, etc. This has me worried, since I want to put the Warlock's EMP Generator in the back of a Reliant, but there are no equipping ports in cargo areas. So what is with that? I dunno. I think there will be a lot of folks complain that they can't use cargo area for equipment when they want to build their ships, but OTOH if there aren't specific restrictions people will build designs that are so obviously better that their design will replace others that are similar, and we'll have a lack of variety. Especially note the interest in combining the Ghost and Tracker qualities. If you can do that, no one will own either of these separately. All sneaky Hornets will be Ghost/Trackers.

If I had my druthers, I'd combine the Tracker, Ghost and EMP functions all in a Reliant, and will still try if they'll let me. I'm not betting on it.
I think what you are talking is never going to be possible, however, turning a regular hornet into a hornet ghost should work via upgrades, you simply buy and install the Ghosts sensor array, im not saying its going to be as good as a straight ghost, but it can perform the job, you also might be able to put void armor or a stealth coating on the base hornet, effectively turning it into a ghost, but to be able to combine 3 ships into one i dont see happening, even then it will be balanced. I like using the Aquila for this.

The Aquila has extra fuel tanks, and a jump point scanner which replace a bunch of if not almost all of the missiles, you also have the long range scanner which is where the top turret normally is. I'm pretty sure CIG has state you can remove these items and put the base model stuff back on if you want, so for example, i remove the fuel tanks, i will be able to put missile rack back on and get closer to the andromeda's missile quantity, but lets say im going out a long ways with no refuel support, but need some more firepower, ok, put the fuel tanks back on, but pop the long range scanner off so i can have a second turret. You cant put one set of abilities on the ship without sacrificing the others.

In regards to the freelancer mentioned earlier, engines can be swapped, we know this already, thats why almost no ship comes with its max size engine. so you could put the cargo engines on the base freelancer, and you also would be able to put the MIS missile racks on, as they simply reduce the amount of cargo you can carry, same with the DURp's sensors and fuel tanks, but for the fuel tanks you have to sacrafice missiles, and for sensors you are probably lowering your cargo capacity. you have to give up certain areas.

Its exactly the reason i went with an aquila, it can be turned back into a base model. However, it will never be able to be 100% a phoenix, because it lacks the Capital pylon, and i dont see those being removable/able to be added. However i could put the luxury items into the aquila if i wanted.
 

Ripcord33

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This has been tickling my mind as well. To the point in thinking of buying/renting both, and seeing if the sensor package will load into the Ghost.
Yes it will, but you have to remove the pod that comes with the ghost and in the final game, that would mean sacrificing the ghosts abilities.
 

Shadow Reaper

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Has anyone tried to put the Warlock package onto a Titan, or the tractor beam onto the Reliant? Last I saw both wingtip ports on the Kore were for equipment only, so no weapons. I am supposing this is one thing different with the Tana, and I am still daring to hope there will be a Reliant rebellion and they'll mark both wingtips for weapons or equipment. I am not however expecting to get what I really want.


IMHO, you ought to be able to use whatever space you have however you like, but with the restrictions you should expect for power use, etc. I'd love it if you could fit 2 Suckerpunches on each Tana turret, but I would not necessarily expect to be able to power them with the small "high output" reactor it comes with.
 

ratfeast

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Dammit.
Every time I "finalize my fleet", I change my mind.
Why are ships so hard?
Current Fleet (Star-G), with 4 x Dragonflies. Ship value: $1095
View attachment 2612
My hope is that I'll be able to upgrade the Beerfarer Gemini to the Carrack for $10. Assuming the Carrack goes on sale again for $350.

Thinking I want to end up with this...
Proposed Fleet. Value: $1225View attachment 2614
I already own a Redeemer to Carrack upgrade, so there's $100 I don't need to spend.

However,
I really don't need 2 dogfighters, so the Sabre *could* disappear, leaving me with: $1055 Value (+ 1 Dragonfly = $1090)
View attachment 2616

Hmmmm.

So yeah. I have no questions. Just putting my thoughts down. That is all.

Cheers,
Owl
I love the silhouettes. Where did you get them?
 

Grimbli

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Has anyone tried to put the Warlock package onto a Titan, or the tractor beam onto the Reliant?
I'm not sure if that function is in the game, but they have said all the Avenger packages will be interchangeable. They'll probably try to add something like that in for when the Caterpillar becomes hangar/flight ready.
 

Blind Owl

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Its exactly the reason i went with an aquila, it can be turned back into a base model. However, it will never be able to be 100% a phoenix, because it lacks the Capital pylon, and i dont see those being removable/able to be added. However i could put the luxury items into the aquila if i wanted.
I wonder what kind of modularity the Carrack will have. I only need one explorer. Which one though...
Which one.
Yes it will, but you have to remove the pod that comes with the ghost and in the final game
There's a pod? Dammit. I thought it was just the void armour.
 

Blind Owl

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Has anyone tried to put the Warlock package onto a Titan, or the tractor beam onto the Reliant? Last I saw both wingtip ports on the Kore were for equipment only, so no weapons. I am supposing this is one thing different with the Tana, and I am still daring to hope there will be a Reliant rebellion and they'll mark both wingtips for weapons or equipment. I am not however expecting to get what I really want.


IMHO, you ought to be able to use whatever space you have however you like, but with the restrictions you should expect for power use, etc. I'd love it if you could fit 2 Suckerpunches on each Tana turret, but I would not necessarily expect to be able to power them with the small "high output" reactor it comes with.
I haven't played with the Reliant at all. Don't own own, although I'm starting to wonder about the viability of one as an explorer. I'd be interested to see how modular they are as well. That's something that really entices me: being able to change my ship as I require for whatever purpose I have in mind.
I'm not sure if that function is in the game, but they have said all the Avenger packages will be interchangeable. They'll probably try to add something like that in for when the Caterpillar becomes hangar/flight ready.
I'll be saving a dollar or two for Caterpillar mods, that's for sure. Can't wait to see what they come up with.
 
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