The Return to the Good Star Wars

Lorddarthvik

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Watched ep1 via EFAP...
I didn't even pay attention to the commentary, there was no need as I had the exact same reactions.

Bwahahahahaha this is soooooo freaklng baaad. I'm with RIchard (and Drinker) on this. WTF were they thinking???

Filoni takes full credits for this episode. Well, this is where his streak ends.
This is garbage. Bland, the pacing is dumb because it's not setting up any stakes, the action is dumber because there are no stakes for the good guys.

Their "quest" is meaningless. We are not shown anything that would change this. They tell me it's important, bad guys show up to stop them, but literally that's it. Unless you watched the shows and or read the books, this carries no weight.

And even then.
Thrawn is NOT A VILLAIN. At least according to how he was written originally. He is a reasonable man with great intellect and driven by flawless logic. He is NOT evil by default. He is only cruel when necessary, but that's kinda rare. Basically Sherlock Holmes without any of the addictions or social issues.
Yes he is a traditionalist, has his own (his alien native) very strict views on ethics and morality, but he is not your avarage "kill them for my amusement cos I gotz the powaaah" type of villain like the Emperor. He is kinda sorta authoritarian, but with very good reason. He never cared for the empire's petty squabbles, he wanted to unite everything to prepare for something far worse then the known galaxy has ever seen. His methods were, a bit over the top sometimes, but by his peoples code, ultimately kinda fair. You betrayed him, and your tribe eats Star Destroyer lazers for dinner as you watch on from orbit. You were told there would be consequences so, what did you expect?

At this point after what Disney had done to the SW universe, he would be a much better leader for the anarchistic shitshow that is the New Republic then whatever they have going on. The rebels have proven to be just that, a bunch of terrorists, who can't establish a better system than what was already in place.

The characters may be accurate to a cartoon level (I wouldn't really know for sure) but there is no rime or reason to their actions on a grown-up level. In the cartoons which I have seen very little of, it always made more sense than this.

The xposition and writing is on the level of filmschool rejects. They clearly couldn't afford to show, not tell, and I'm being very generous here, because most likely they just talentless shits.

Basically every action scene looks like the "we have x at home" meme, or a wish dot com cheap copy of the original.
There's are almost full on sequences "borrowed" from previous movies and games. The fighting is stiff, slow, I've seen much better coreo from 400 pound kids on youtube with broomsticks than what they do here, and the quick cheap cuts don't help it either. The end-of-first episode fight should always be epic, memorable, something to pull you in and make you watch the next episode! Well, they just made it bland and boring and pointless.

The sets look cheap, the CG looks outright laughable by todays standards, to a level where I can totally seriously say "I could do better" and I wouldn't be lying (remember, this my daily job). Most scenes are just flooded with light and bloom and DoF, so you can't see shit apart from the actor and a couple of things they actually made in the prop department, or so dark that you can't see more than 5 pixels in the middle of the screen.
Combined with the ledwall-background, which is so aweful that it makes Skyrim's graphics look futuristic... It's clear that instead of spending more and refining this tech for quality, they spent less and "refined" for cost. Everything is shot in a way to require as little post as possible, making the cheapness even more obvious because the camera angles just feel wrong. Mando and later shows suffered from this led wall crap, but this is by far the worst offender.

The reused props from unrelated movies like The 5th Element and the winged (wingless here) gold ball from Harry Potter??? makes me want to turn it off and watch those greats instead of this mess.

And you know, no one would bat an eyelid at the terrible cheapness of this whole thing if the writing was any good. But it just isn't. It's like 20 seconds from a cartoon meant for 5 year olds made into an hour long bland nothing. No wonder the already small viewership has fallen off a cliff more than on any previous show.

I can give it one point up over the previous SW shows. At least the girls are cute, and the villain looks the part!

I'm not going to rate the acting too harshly just yet. It's stiff, every character conveys a single emotion all the time (cheerful, rebellious, stoic...) but that's expected. Every single show ever needed at least a good 2-5 eps for the actors to find their groove, I'll give them time. I know I shouldn't cos they won't improve. Mr.NotDarth (RIP) is already the top character and actor in this and will remain so throughout. I'd watch a show about him, but as he has passed away, we will never get that spinoff... Not that I'd trust anyone in Hollywood to do it justice anyways.


@Shadow Reaper TLDR.: Sorry mate, I don't think this is what you were looking for.




And now for some fan ficktion.
You need to establish stakes. The show could've opened with something that does, like the following I came up with in 2 minutes while on bottle duty.
Scene:

COLD OPEN
Bg dark and out of focus for the rest of this scene
Extreme close up of the SW equivalent of an ipad screen, it's filling the view fully, edges not visible yet
Camera slowly pulls out (zoom out) as this plays out

Slowly a military style map grid becomes recognizable, with easily readable simple icons for planets (systems) with recognizable name tags like Coruscant and Bespin shown in green or blue, while icons of imperial ships (ISDs, TIEs) in red, at first turning one planet red, than more appear from that planet icon. They spread from planet to planet like a virus, turning everything red (you can jazz this up with allied fighter icons and such blinking out of existence along with some imperials to signify the process of battles happening)
Once far enough zoomed out, near the top edge of the screen it reads "Tactical Simulation"
When everything turns red, the screen changes to a large text centered on screen blinking "Success chance: 93%" or "Simulation Successful" , something along those lines.
As we continued to zoom out, the hands holding the tablet come into view.
Blue skin, with white sleeves!!
Cam stops.
Focus shifts, revealing the reflection on the tablet: two red eyes and a blue face with a faint smile, barely visible.

CUT TO BLACK, MAIN TITLE

There. I've just written a scene that would make 55% of the audience cum like the Luke reveal did, and would make the rest interested enough to stay.
Because now we have stakes! We know WHY it's important to find the guy. A 20-30 second scene at most. No talking, no forced exposition or VO neccessary. You are SHOWN what's at stake.
Even if you can't read, the red overwhelming the blue and then the red eyes will tell you everything you need to know.

If you really really need to make sure that even the avarage american recognizes that this is The Thrawn the rest of the show goes on about, you can throw his name on the tablet screen somewhere on the sides with text like "authorization code: Thrawn" or something dumb like that, revealed in english at the end as the focus shifts. It really shouldn't be neccessary.
As for the texts on the ipad, all in Aurebesh ofc, with fancy subtitles that switch from aur to english, or you can do the letters flipping to English on the ipad screen itself, that's just a design choice. (cos fan service, but you gotta make it clear for everyone)
BTW running sims is in line with Thrawn's obsession of pre-planning everything, in the books there is a scene where his CO witnesses him running a sim like this. Small fan service for the book nerds, and it makes perfect sense for his character.
 

Shadow Reaper

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Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I can’t answer since as I said, I’m waiting to binge at the end of the season. I am however open to spoilers. I get surprised and excited even when I know what surprise is about to pounce. I’m simple like that.

I will say that over the years I have developed a respect for this guy who does StarWarsTheory, and he just gave the episode 10/10. So obviously he’s seeing redeeming qualities you are not.

As to any perceived cheapness—well yes. Lukas was told decades ago that even with all cgi sets, he would not be able to produce what he wants for less than $10M/episode. Money has always been the barrier to entry here, which is why the real fans have like the Japanese public, realized that animated is still a powerful vehicle.

I’m more interested in the story than the quality of the cgi. And really, Anakin? That’s a hat trick. I think you need to give credit where it’s due.

View: https://youtu.be/b-a_CtVoQWc?si=QW_d9XQiggBbuX0r
 

Richard Bong

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Watched ep1 via EFAP...
I didn't even pay attention to the commentary, there was no need as I had the exact same reactions.

Bwahahahahaha this is soooooo freaklng baaad. I'm with RIchard (and Drinker) on this. WTF were they thinking???

Filoni takes full credits for this episode. Well, this is where his streak ends.
This is garbage. Bland, the pacing is dumb because it's not setting up any stakes, the action is dumber because there are no stakes for the good guys.

Their "quest" is meaningless. We are not shown anything that would change this. They tell me it's important, bad guys show up to stop them, but literally that's it. Unless you watched the shows and or read the books, this carries no weight.

And even then.
Thrawn is NOT A VILLAIN. At least according to how he was written originally. He is a reasonable man with great intellect and driven by flawless logic. He is NOT evil by default. He is only cruel when necessary, but that's kinda rare. Basically Sherlock Holmes without any of the addictions or social issues.
Yes he is a traditionalist, has his own (his alien native) very strict views on ethics and morality, but he is not your avarage "kill them for my amusement cos I gotz the powaaah" type of villain like the Emperor. He is kinda sorta authoritarian, but with very good reason. He never cared for the empire's petty squabbles, he wanted to unite everything to prepare for something far worse then the known galaxy has ever seen. His methods were, a bit over the top sometimes, but by his peoples code, ultimately kinda fair. You betrayed him, and your tribe eats Star Destroyer lazers for dinner as you watch on from orbit. You were told there would be consequences so, what did you expect?

At this point after what Disney had done to the SW universe, he would be a much better leader for the anarchistic shitshow that is the New Republic then whatever they have going on. The rebels have proven to be just that, a bunch of terrorists, who can't establish a better system than what was already in place.

The characters may be accurate to a cartoon level (I wouldn't really know for sure) but there is no rime or reason to their actions on a grown-up level. In the cartoons which I have seen very little of, it always made more sense than this.

The xposition and writing is on the level of filmschool rejects. They clearly couldn't afford to show, not tell, and I'm being very generous here, because most likely they just talentless shits.

Basically every action scene looks like the "we have x at home" meme, or a wish dot com cheap copy of the original.
There's are almost full on sequences "borrowed" from previous movies and games. The fighting is stiff, slow, I've seen much better coreo from 400 pound kids on youtube with broomsticks than what they do here, and the quick cheap cuts don't help it either. The end-of-first episode fight should always be epic, memorable, something to pull you in and make you watch the next episode! Well, they just made it bland and boring and pointless.

The sets look cheap, the CG looks outright laughable by todays standards, to a level where I can totally seriously say "I could do better" and I wouldn't be lying (remember, this my daily job). Most scenes are just flooded with light and bloom and DoF, so you can't see shit apart from the actor and a couple of things they actually made in the prop department, or so dark that you can't see more than 5 pixels in the middle of the screen.
Combined with the ledwall-background, which is so aweful that it makes Skyrim's graphics look futuristic... It's clear that instead of spending more and refining this tech for quality, they spent less and "refined" for cost. Everything is shot in a way to require as little post as possible, making the cheapness even more obvious because the camera angles just feel wrong. Mando and later shows suffered from this led wall crap, but this is by far the worst offender.

The reused props from unrelated movies like The 5th Element and the winged (wingless here) gold ball from Harry Potter??? makes me want to turn it off and watch those greats instead of this mess.

And you know, no one would bat an eyelid at the terrible cheapness of this whole thing if the writing was any good. But it just isn't. It's like 20 seconds from a cartoon meant for 5 year olds made into an hour long bland nothing. No wonder the already small viewership has fallen off a cliff more than on any previous show.

I can give it one point up over the previous SW shows. At least the girls are cute, and the villain looks the part!

I'm not going to rate the acting too harshly just yet. It's stiff, every character conveys a single emotion all the time (cheerful, rebellious, stoic...) but that's expected. Every single show ever needed at least a good 2-5 eps for the actors to find their groove, I'll give them time. I know I shouldn't cos they won't improve. Mr.NotDarth (RIP) is already the top character and actor in this and will remain so throughout. I'd watch a show about him, but as he has passed away, we will never get that spinoff... Not that I'd trust anyone in Hollywood to do it justice anyways.


@Shadow Reaper TLDR.: Sorry mate, I don't think this is what you were looking for.




And now for some fan ficktion.
You need to establish stakes. The show could've opened with something that does, like the following I came up with in 2 minutes while on bottle duty.
Scene:

COLD OPEN
Bg dark and out of focus for the rest of this scene
Extreme close up of the SW equivalent of an ipad screen, it's filling the view fully, edges not visible yet
Camera slowly pulls out (zoom out) as this plays out

Slowly a military style map grid becomes recognizable, with easily readable simple icons for planets (systems) with recognizable name tags like Coruscant and Bespin shown in green or blue, while icons of imperial ships (ISDs, TIEs) in red, at first turning one planet red, than more appear from that planet icon. They spread from planet to planet like a virus, turning everything red (you can jazz this up with allied fighter icons and such blinking out of existence along with some imperials to signify the process of battles happening)
Once far enough zoomed out, near the top edge of the screen it reads "Tactical Simulation"
When everything turns red, the screen changes to a large text centered on screen blinking "Success chance: 93%" or "Simulation Successful" , something along those lines.
As we continued to zoom out, the hands holding the tablet come into view.
Blue skin, with white sleeves!!
Cam stops.
Focus shifts, revealing the reflection on the tablet: two red eyes and a blue face with a faint smile, barely visible.

CUT TO BLACK, MAIN TITLE

There. I've just written a scene that would make 55% of the audience cum like the Luke reveal did, and would make the rest interested enough to stay.
Because now we have stakes! We know WHY it's important to find the guy. A 20-30 second scene at most. No talking, no forced exposition or VO neccessary. You are SHOWN what's at stake.
Even if you can't read, the red overwhelming the blue and then the red eyes will tell you everything you need to know.

If you really really need to make sure that even the avarage american recognizes that this is The Thrawn the rest of the show goes on about, you can throw his name on the tablet screen somewhere on the sides with text like "authorization code: Thrawn" or something dumb like that, revealed in english at the end as the focus shifts. It really shouldn't be neccessary.
As for the texts on the ipad, all in Aurebesh ofc, with fancy subtitles that switch from aur to english, or you can do the letters flipping to English on the ipad screen itself, that's just a design choice. (cos fan service, but you gotta make it clear for everyone)
BTW running sims is in line with Thrawn's obsession of pre-planning everything, in the books there is a scene where his CO witnesses him running a sim like this. Small fan service for the book nerds, and it makes perfect sense for his character.
Thank you. Your open is much better.
As a change to the story:
Forget the whole master/padawan attempt between Ahsoka and Sabine. It just doesn't work.
A Jedi working with a Mandalorian fits the characters better, provides a better dynamic and makes a better story.
A Mandalorian's basic training and standard tool kit are designed to fight Jedi, and that could include having a saber (and a shield like Bo Katan has).
This change also wouldn't be canon breaking. Throw in a scene of a visit to the Armorer and you get an inexpensive cameo, improved pacing and get some exposition on Sabine's character.
Give Snips back her attitude to make her an interesting character as well. The whole silent staring is just boring.
 
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Richard Bong

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Could be too, that everyone complaining about the pace is doing so because they’re not familiar with 9/10 of the story currently being told. There’s no help for this.

View: https://youtu.be/2idq3ewEtmg?si=BgkXXE2r2Dg03ayW
The pacing just sucks. Even the reviews by diehard fans willing to look the other way on everything else, says the pacing sucks. The story, the parts that haven't been retconned, has nothing to do with it.
 
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Lorddarthvik

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Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I can’t answer since as I said, I’m waiting to binge at the end of the season. I am however open to spoilers. I get surprised and excited even when I know what surprise is about to pounce. I’m simple like that.

I will say that over the years I have developed a respect for this guy who does StarWarsTheory, and he just gave the episode 10/10. So obviously he’s seeing redeeming qualities you are not.

As to any perceived cheapness—well yes. Lukas was told decades ago that even with all cgi sets, he would not be able to produce what he wants for less than $10M/episode. Money has always been the barrier to entry here, which is why the real fans have like the Japanese public, realized that animated is still a powerful vehicle.

I’m more interested in the story than the quality of the cgi. And really, Anakin? That’s a hat trick. I think you need to give credit where it’s due.

View: https://youtu.be/b-a_CtVoQWc?si=QW_d9XQiggBbuX0r
Fair enough, I hope you will find it as entertaining as you are hyped up about it!
I didn't give props for the Anakin cos while I heard he pops in on ep4, I only watched ep1 and rated that, and that alone. It is what it is.
As for the costs vs visual quality, the decline is very visible from S1 of Mando to this. If I compare this to Andor, which was actually filmed and budgeted for well before any of the others, that looks by far the best of all the SW shows.
I wouldn't care about the quality of cgi if there was anything else to look at. That's why the horrible CG in the 2000s shows didn't matter, becuse 95% of the screen was filled with reality, not CG. In Ashoka it's the other way around, and thus the quality matters, because instead of immersing me in a fantasy, it takes me out of it regardless of whatever else is happening.

@Richard Bong
Thank you.
I'm sure with certain changes it could get better, but it was so underwhelming I just can't be bothered to care. There's so much more entertaining things to do with my time than watching another episode of this.

I might tune in for the 1 or two episodes where Thrawn finally shows up and watch how they massacre my boi, but that's it for me. RIP SW, until you get sold off and resurrected again.
 
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Richard Bong

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Fair enough, I hope you will find it as entertaining as you are hyped up about it!
I didn't give props for the Anakin cos while I heard he pops in on ep4, I only watched ep1 and rated that, and that alone. It is what it is.
As for the costs vs visual quality, the decline is very visible from S1 of Mando to this. If I compare this to Andor, which was actually filmed and budgeted for well before any of the others, that looks by far the best of all the SW shows.
I wouldn't care about the quality of cgi if there was anything else to look at. That's why the horrible CG in the 2000s shows didn't matter, becuse 95% of the screen was filled with reality, not CG. In Ashoka it's the other way around, and thus the quality matters, because instead of immersing me in a fantasy, it takes me out of it regardless of whatever else is happening.

@Richard Bong
Thank you.
I'm sure with certain changes it could get better, but it was so underwhelming I just can't be bothered to care. There's so much more entertaining things to do with my time than watching another episode of this.

I might tune in for the 1 or two episodes where Thrawn finally shows up and watch how they massacre my boi, but that's it for me. RIP SW, until you get sold off and resurrected again.
It's too late for changes to this show. Your opening, plus changing the base character dynamics, from the start, better writing and directing, could have actually made this good.

But this is Disney Star Wars, and this crap appears to be all they are capable of. Star Wars is dead. Disney killed it with the first episode of the sequel trilogy.
 

KuruptU4Fun

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Y'all remind me of an skit from SNL... Mike Meyers Coffee Talk, the one with Madonna and Roseanne.

Movies, TV shows now will never match up to the movies we grew up with the eyes and wonder of a child. The legacy books and graphic novels that will find their way into the SWU can't match todays media because they have to distill those stories into shows that todays audience will pay attention to which is, as you know that same 45'ish minutes. Those books/ novels took most of us weeks to read and will never compare to those mythical stories that were created in our heads thru imagination, as such what is now will never match your current expectations. Yet you can't stop discussing it or just let it go and immerse if you're yourselves in -the books, comics and movies that brought you to love SW in the first place. Hell if you're going to criticize something SW related then that Christmas special and the animated stuff from our generation, I'd join in on that one. But right now I'm a little verklempt...

View: https://youtu.be/oiJkANps0Qw?si=7h0b4yQZpvu2kXbi
 

Lorddarthvik

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Y'all remind me of an skit from SNL... Mike Meyers Coffee Talk, the one with Madonna and Roseanne.

Movies, TV shows now will never match up to the movies we grew up with the eyes and wonder of a child. The legacy books and graphic novels that will find their way into the SWU can't match todays media because they have to distill those stories into shows that todays audience will pay attention to which is, as you know that same 45'ish minutes. Those books/ novels took most of us weeks to read and will never compare to those mythical stories that were created in our heads thru imagination, as such what is now will never match your current expectations. Yet you can't stop discussing it or just let it go and immerse if you're yourselves in -the books, comics and movies that brought you to love SW in the first place. Hell if you're going to criticize something SW related then that Christmas special and the animated stuff from our generation, I'd join in on that one. But right now I'm a little verklempt...

View: https://youtu.be/oiJkANps0Qw?si=7h0b4yQZpvu2kXbi
There is some truth to that, and also not in this case. Well, at least not in my case.

There is a huge difference between being disappointed with something that obviously tried to live up to those expectations, and something that subverts those expectations into lecturing at the audience on purpose, like so many movies do these days.

Also there is no reason why a new movie could never live up to expectations from one's childhood. They absolutely can. Just ask any Harry Potter fan.
My most recent example, I had vague memories of Top Gun from my childhood, I really liked the airplanes, never got the full story cos I was a kid and it was always on German sat TV so I couldn't understand most of it. Yet I had the same smile all the way through watching the new movie as I did when I was a kid. The same wonder, the same joy, the same excitement. I felt 6 again!
Because it wasn't trying to lecture me about me being a bad person for having the wrong race and gender and having the wrong politics, like basically every single movie and TV show these days, it was "just a movie" that was trying to entertain.
Just a couple from the past if we are talking book-firsts that pulled off this "impossible" feat just fine: DUNE (the latest), LOTR, Harry Potter, Dredd (2012) even...
Then there was Transformers 1, Dark Knight, Pikachu, Sonic, maybe even the first Jurassic World just about hit the spot.. I know most of these weren't released yesterday, but I wasn't a child anymore 10-15 years ago either, so to me they count just fine.

But ofc, in some cases, it really is impossible to replicate the same experience as before:
Replaying WoW Classic after 15+ years, with the exact same character start to see if I can re live the same feeling I remember when I first stepped into that world... not possible. It just isn't. It wasn't disappointing cos I knew it was impossible, and the nostalgia carried me for a couple days but that was it. I knew I would never get that feeling back, and exactly because I'm a grown up now, I moved past it.

Now this thing, that's happening to SW? This has nothing to do with recapturing anything or living up to impossible expectations. If you plop someone down in front of the latest season of any of these shows, a rando who has never been into SW at all, they will wanna leave after 5 minutes and ask why you torturing them. Grab an episode of SG1 without the "victim" knowing anything about it, and they will watch till the end. Do I need to explain more?...


Anyways, back to the topic:
Ashoka is so boring and empty because they had to remove most of the lecturing at and subversion, and they have nothing left. They can't write a decent story arc or action sequence, all they can write is "the message", thus we ended up with 50min episodes spending 40 minutes staring into the bland emptiness of some cheap CG background.
 
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KuruptU4Fun

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Also there is no reason why a new movie could never live up to expectations from one's childhood. They absolutely can. Just ask any Harry Potter fan.
Until producers start saying: "hey let's hit the restart button and make a new movie, but bring back some of the old cast just for nostalgia". Then Harry Potter fans are going to have the same shit hits the fan moments SW people are.
My most recent example, I had vague memories of Top Gun from my childhood, I really liked the airplanes, never got the full story cos I was a kid and it was always on German sat TV so I couldn't understand most of it. Yet I had the same smile all the way through watching the new movie as I did when I was a kid. The same wonder, the same joy, the same excitement. I felt 6 again!
Me too, but why did Mav really need a love story? They could have brought Meg Ryan back and played off of the "promise me he won't fly" conversation with him and it would have held more weight and connection to the first movie.
If you plop someone down in front of the latest season of any of these shows, a rando who has never been into SW at all, they will wanna leave after 5 minutes and ask why you torturing them. Grab an episode of SG1 without the "victim" knowing anything about it, and they will watch till the end. Do I need to explain more?...
It is trying to recapture the past they just can't because the original characters are no longer available. Disney is taking Ashoka/ Rebels and using the "Heir to the Empire" books by replacing the characters in the books with modern characters. Disney could have easily redone the entire book set using animation and a voice actor cast.

Your example of using a random SG episode isn't applicable either as pretty much the only direct connection to the movie it spawned from was in the first few episodes of the 1st season. If there's no real direct ties to the movie thru out the series with the exception of some small nods then you have no real connection to it for people to understand or even know the movie existed. SG is good, however it wasn't the movie that made it popular, it was the TV shows, each had their own distinct enemies and very little in the way of overlap from one to the next. Hell even with Samantha Carter coming to Atlantis her character rarely ever talks about SG-1, so if Atlantis was all they ever saw, they wouldn't know that character had a larger part in the IP.
Anyways, back to the topic:
Ashoka is so boring and empty because they had to remove most of the lecturing at and subversion, and they have nothing left. They can't write a decent story arc or action sequence, all they can write is "the message", thus we ended up with 50min episodes spending 40 minutes staring into the bland emptiness of some cheap CG background.
No, they can't figure out how to write a 3 book series into 8 episodes and make it understandable.
 
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Richard Bong

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No, they can't figure out how to write a 3 book series into 8 episodes and make it understandable.
No, they can't write a good story. It's more like they are writing unlinked video game side quests. And all the characters have read the full walk through.

For example:
  • How does Baylen know Ahsoka will seek out Sabine? (As near as I can tell, even Ahsoka didn't know that before actually doing it.)
    [*]How does Baylen know Sabine wants to find Ezra?
    [*]How does Ahsoka know there was a second droid at Sabine's tower?
 

Lorddarthvik

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Until producers start saying: "hey let's hit the restart button and make a new movie, but bring back some of the old cast just for nostalgia". Then Harry Potter fans are going to have the same shit hits the fan moments SW people are.

Me too, but why did Mav really need a love story? They could have brought Meg Ryan back and played off of the "promise me he won't fly" conversation with him and it would have held more weight and connection to the first movie.

It is trying to recapture the past they just can't because the original characters are no longer available. Disney is taking Ashoka/ Rebels and using the "Heir to the Empire" books by replacing the characters in the books with modern characters. Disney could have easily redone the entire book set using animation and a voice actor cast.

Your example of using a random SG episode isn't applicable either as pretty much the only direct connection to the movie it spawned from was in the first few episodes of the 1st season. If there's no real direct ties to the movie thru out the series with the exception of some small nods then you have no real connection to it for people to understand or even know the movie existed. SG is good, however it wasn't the movie that made it popular, it was the TV shows, each had their own distinct enemies and very little in the way of overlap from one to the next. Hell even with Samantha Carter coming to Atlantis her character rarely ever talks about SG-1, so if Atlantis was all they ever saw, they wouldn't know that character had a larger part in the IP.

No, they can't figure out how to write a 3 book series into 8 episodes and make it understandable.
Guess I went on a little bit of a fever induced rant yesterday. Anyways, we are having the same problem with the thing they make being shit, regardless of which reasons we go by.

As for Mav, I guess because every good action blockbuster needs a fast n loose love story at least. I didn't mind it. They were doing a checklist of things that actually worked in the past, and they kinda nailed it. Yes I know it's basically the death star run with just a bit of extra training and a lack of Millennium Falcons, but if it works, don't fix it!

I don't think they are ready to hit HP with a remake just yet, it's too hot of a commodity right now. With the whole "wizard game" thing and the spinoff movies bombing like Hiroshima, and Holywood running a bit low on money for now.. But yes, if they did it now, it would be the same shitshow.
At this point I'm just waiting on the announcement that they are remaking the original SW trilogy. It is going to happen...

My point with SG1 was that it is written competently, unlike almost all of these SW shows. That is all I wanted to say with that.

I have no connection to Ashoka or Rebels, I never seen those as a kid, only recently a little bit. I don't care how they assassinate her original character. She was a side character in a kids show, yeah great, now she has to become the main hero in the last story connection they have left to the original Star Wars lore. It will turn out just fine, surely...
I do have connections to Heir though. I'm upset they are ruining that with this travesty instead of doing something like you suggested, a proper adaptation with animation and voice actors. I'd much rather have that.



I'll get off this train for now, it's getting boring just like the show. I'll be back to full on rant mode once we hit citcon. I don't expect to be pleasantly surprised this year... but until then, I got starry fields to reap, and possibly some high tech punks to hack later.
 

Shadow Reaper

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Wow. I have never read so many strong opinions about animated tv series that the opinionated had never watched. That’s a new phenomenon to behold.

Just FYI, many fans believe that Rebels was by far the best SW to date—better storytelling than the original trilogy. That’s saying a lot.
 
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Richard Bong

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Wow. I have never read so many strong opinions about animated tv series that the opinionated had never watched. That’s a new phenomenon to behold.

Just FYI, many fans believe that Rebels was by far the best SW to date—better storytelling than the original trilogy. That’s saying a lot.
You mean like claiming the Ahsoka series is great without even watching one episode?

Rebels is a kids show. If you believe that is better story telling than the original trilogy, you didn't understand the original trilogy. And, yes, I have watched a few episodes of Rebels, and, IMHO, they suffer from the same inconsistency issues and lack of proper character development that Disney Star Wars live action shows have been giving us and what I have come to expect from Dave Filoni.

Disney just retconned a good portion of Rebels anyway with, probably, more retcon on the way.

Notice I don't try to speak for anyone else, and claim "we" or "many" or similar but given the ratings, it appears that most of the Star Wars Fans have walked away from Disney Star Wars, and no longer care about it.

For me, it's like watching a train wreck, it's tough to look away.
 

KuruptU4Fun

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At this point I'm just waiting on the announcement that they are remaking the original SW trilogy. It is going to happen...
If they're going to do that, might as well start with EP1 and maintain the style guide IMO. You can't go from 1-3 when it comes to visuals in starships to 3-6 without a severe disappointment in that light.
 

Shadow Reaper

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Richard, Rebels is a kids show in precisely the same way the first two trilogies are kids shows. That’s George’s target audience and he doesn’t need anyone’s permission to write the way he chooses to. Rebels was written for the same audience as the first 4 films. Those who never watched Rebels because it is animated cheated themselves. It really is great storytelling.

I haven’t said I like the new show. I just pointed out some of the insufferably snooty, intolerant, obnoxious and self-aggrandizing bullshit here for what it is. If you’re so much better at storytelling than George Lucas and Dave Filoni, why not grace us all with your own script? Someone was pretending to write a scene here a week or so ago. Why not do it for real? You’re obviously impressed with your skills—or are they all peanut gallery skills?

Ballan knows things because he practices the rare Jedi force power known as “Foreseeing”. You’ll figure it out if you stop looking to whine and just enjoy the story. It is exceedingly rare among the Sith and mostly discouraged by the Jedi, though practiced by both Darth Sidious and Yoda. There are already several tutorials on YouTube explaining Ballan’s use of that force power. You can look them up if you like. You’ll also find that force power available to gamers playing Fantasy Flight Games “Force and Destiny” TTRPG. You can also find vids of players using that force power on YouTube. Look for TableStory’s leap into SW, and witness the Jedi Padawan character Nuada using that power.

Just FYI, great writing and storytelling often commits to mistakes in the plot. Flawless plots are not the hallmark of great storytelling. Lucas went into great detail in an interview with Wired magazine circa 2011, that his films all have serious plot errors like those you find so important. Just FYI, that is all about you. It has nothing to do with great storytelling.

Filoni will pass or fail based upon fan response. I can tell you it would be one sad fan to decry a series as poorly written because the writer didn’t handhold the audience through every character action. Give us a break? Seriously dude, do these minutia really ruin the entire story for you and if so, what does that really mean?

Richard, what do you think makes a great story? What’s important to a great story?

Episode 5 tomorrow is supposed to be a long narrative dump that will shock the audience. Guess we’ll see what we see. I’m only reading the reactions, so hey; there’s that.
 
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Richard Bong

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Richard, Rebels is a kids show in precisely the same way the first two trilogies are kids shows. That’s George’s target audience and he doesn’t need anyone’s permission to write the way he chooses to. Rebels was written for the same audience as the first 4 films. Those who never watched Rebels because it is animated cheated themselves. It really is great storytelling.

I haven’t said I like the new show. I just pointed out some of the insufferably snooty, intolerant, obnoxious and self-aggrandizing bullshit here for what it is. If you’re so much better at storytelling than George Lucas and Dave Filoni, why not grace us all with your own script? Someone was pretending to write a scene here a week or so ago. Why not do it for real? You’re obviously impressed with your skills—or are they all peanut gallery skills?

Ballan knows things because he practices the rare Jedi force power known as “Foreseeing”. You’ll figure it out if you stop looking to whine and just enjoy the story. It is exceedingly rare among the Sith and mostly discouraged by the Jedi, though practiced by both Darth Sidious and Yoda. There are already several tutorials on YouTube explaining Ballan’s use of that force power. You can look them up if you like. You’ll also find that force power available to gamers playing Fantasy Flight Games “Force and Destiny” TTRPG. You can also find vids of players using that force power on YouTube. Look for TableStory’s leap into SW, and witness the Jedi Padawan character Nuada using that power.

Just FYI, great writing and storytelling often commits to mistakes in the plot. Flawless plots are not the hallmark of great storytelling. Lucas went into great detail in an interview with Wired magazine circa 2011, that his films all have serious plot errors like those you find so important. Just FYI, that is all about you. It has nothing to do with great storytelling.

Filoni will pass or fail based upon fan response. I can tell you it would be one sad fan to decry a series as poorly written because the writer didn’t handhold the audience through every character action. Give us a break? Seriously dude, do these minutia really ruin the entire story for you and if so, what does that really mean?

Richard, what do you think makes a great story? What’s important to a great story?

Episode 5 tomorrow is supposed to be a long narrative dump that will shock the audience. Guess we’ll see what we see. I’m only reading the reactions, so hey; there’s that.
I've suffered through several episodes of Rebels. It is specifically for immature audiences, not adults. From an adult standpoint it is pure crap.

I'm a published author, though what I wrote isn't fiction. My mother and grandmother are also both published authors and were both English teachers. I don't need to write to be entertained, or to recognize good or bad writing.

Filoni is a hack that doesn't understand the source material, doesn't understand the audience and doesn't understand how to entertain. He has retconned things he didn't need to retcon except to stroke his own ego.
For example, why change Ahsoka's back story?

The fans have judged him, they have walked away. He has, with the help of Disney, taken one of the world's most popular pieces of Intellectual Property and killed it. The ratings prove it.

Shock the audience? What audience? The only shock will be if more than half a million households watch it in D+5 even with the $1.99 price for Disney+.
 

Sky Captain

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I read and hear the commentary on Ahsoka so far.

All I will say is this: I'm enjoying it far more than most other stuff I find on television. Star Trek Strange New Worlds is the exception.
 
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